I threw together a quickie wiki page for the game based on information from the main page. Start adding people!
FYCN, I think I remember you from Evo. I was the short white dude with glasses who was hanging around Keits & Dark Geese a lot of the time. Nice to see you getting in on this!
Keits is wrong about one thing here - backdashes are vulnerable for a frame or two at the very end (think Potemkin in GG), so they are definitely less effective in the corner. Some characters still rely on them in that spot, mostly due to a lack of other defensive options (e.g. Ryofu, Gokuu). This is something that also comes into play a lot with J.Max; he has the game’s strongest high/low, which doesn’t count for much outside the corner but becomes downright dangerous once he traps them there.
A lot of newer players tend to assume that the guard crushes are broken, since nowhere in the game itself or on Gamefaqs does it explain how to escape them. That and other misunderstandings are what we hope to correct with our full FAQ!
Actually, come to think of it, this game has quite a few things that seem cheap to newcomers: guard crushes, tick throws, crossups, high/low, Gokuu, Ryofu, probably more. We should make some sort of tutorial vid or written guide on how to get around all this stuff…
Come to think of it, Ubersaurus, that might be a good use of the wiki! Nice idea on your part, thanks a lot. =)
-Josh
So yep, as you can tell, I am finished with my big project and am back to work here! Here are the fruits of tonight’s labor:
JACK:
Standing LP: 5f, +5 on standing block, +6 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
Standing MP: 9f, +5 on standing block, +6 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +6 on crouching hit
Standing HP: 14f, -3 on standing block, -1 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +3 on crouching hit
Standing LK: 4f, +5 on standing block, +6 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
Standing MK: 14f, +4 on standing block, +5 on crouch block, +7 on standing hit, +7 on crouching hit
Standing HK: 7f, +0 on standing block, +2 on crouch block, +8 on standing hit, +6 on crouching hit
f/b+MP: 9f, +3 on standing block, +4 on crouch block, +6 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
f/b+HK: 11f, -4 on standing hit, -3 on crouching hit
Crouching LP: 4f, +3 on standing block, +4 on crouch block, +3 on standing hit, +2 on crouching hit
Crouching MP: 6f, +4 on standing block, +5 on crouch block, +4 on standing hit, +5 on crouching hit
Crouching HP: 13f, +5 on standing block, +6 on crouch block, +13 on standing hit, +11 on crouching hit
Crouching LK: 6f, +6 on block, +5 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
Crouching MK: 8f, +3 on block, +5 on standing hit, +3 on crouching hit
Crouching HK: 15-30f, -38 to -23 on block
Jumping LP: 5f
Jumping MP: 6f
Jumping HP: 8-10f
Jumping LK: 4f
Jumping MK: 13f
Jumping HK: 10f
Dashing LP: 5f, +5 on standing block, +6 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
Dashing MP: 9f, +3 on standing block, +4 on crouch block, +6 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
Dashing HP: 14f, -4 on standing block, -2 on crouch block, +4 on standing hit, +2 on crouching hit
Dashing LK: 4f, +5 on standing block, +6 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
Dashing MK: 14f, +3 on standing block, +4 on crouch block, +6 on standing hit, +6 on crouching hit
Dashing HK: 7f, -2 on standing block, +0 on crouch block, +6 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
Dashing d+LP: 4f, +3 on standing block, +4 on crouch block, +3 on standing hit, +2 on crouching hit
Dashing d+MP: 6f, +4 on standing block, +5 on crouch block, +4 on standing hit, +5 on crouching hit
Dashing d+HP: 13f, +4 on standing block, +5 on crouch block, +12 on standing hit, +10 on crouching hit
Dashing d+LK: 6f, +6 on block, +5 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
Dashing d+MK: 8f, +3 on block, +5 on standing hit, +3 on crouching hit
Dashing d+HK: 15-30f, -38 to -23 on block
ABC: 71f before you can move, invincible while underground
b+ABC: 71f before you can move, invincible while underground
f+ABC: 71f before you can move, invincible while underground
d+ABC: Can perform air qcb+K at any time during the move, 41f before you can do anything else
qcb+LK: 6-18f, -7 on standing block, -5 on crouch block
qcb+MK: 8-23f, -12 on standing block, -10 on crouch block
qcb+HK: 10-28f, -12 on standing block, -10 on crouch block
qcf+LK: 23f, +0 on standing block, +1 on crouch block
qcf+MK: 27-42f, -5 on standing block, -4 on crouch block
qcf+HK: 33-48f, -9 on standing block, -8 on crouch block
qcf+LP: 33f, -29 on standing block, -25 on crouch block
qcf+MP: 37f, -29 on standing block, -25 on crouch block
qcf+HP: 41f, -29 on standing block, -25 on crouch block
qcb+LK in air: 4f, -13 or better on standing block, -9 or better on crouch block
qcb+MK in air: 9f, -18 or better on standing block, -14 or better on crouch block
qcb+HK in air: 12f, -24 or better on standing block, -20 or better on crouch block
qcb+LK w/ full meter: 6-16f, -2 on standing block, +0 on crouch block
qcb+MK w/ full meter: 8-21f, -7 on standing block, -5 on crouch block
qcb+HK w/ full meter: 10-29f, -7 on standing block, -5 on crouch block
qcb+LK in air w/ full meter: 3f, -3 on standing block, -1 on crouch block
qcb+MK in air w/ full meter: 8f, -14 on standing block, -12 on crouch block
qcb+HK in air w/ full meter: 11f, -10 on standing block, -8 on crouch block
Charge d/b,u/f+MP+MK: Charge time = 130f, startup = 27f, -37 on standing block, -35 on crouch block, -34 on hit
Charge d/b,u/f+MP+MK w/ full meter: Charge time = 130f, startup = 27f, -37 on standing block, -35 on crouch block, -34 on hit
NOTES: The sweep is rarely if ever safe and not usually recommended. The qcf+P and super are far safer than they appear, though some characters can still punish you. The qcf+LK is amazing when you combine that frame data with its enormous chip damage and anti-air priority. The qcb+LK is safe from a distance against certain characters, while the other versions are not. The air qcb+K is almost never safe. And if the super connects when close to the opponent, he will get up before you recover and may be able to punish you.
yeah dude didn’t i play you in the SamSho tourney? you were the Sieger player correct? that was a good match man shit was too close.
as far as the guard crush is concerned i never considered it broken, maybe i shouldn’t have said “game breaking” in one of my comments but i tend to use phrases outside of their literal meaning in an attempt at the melodramatic (if you ever meet me in person again you’ll understand) in truth i still had to push my friends into the corner to “break the game” but my friends aren’t stupid so even though its easy to do with Ryofu it still wasnt “easy”.
when i said “stoopid good” i use that in reference to things that are easy and good hence “stoopid good” i mean lets be honest the guard crush cycle for Ryofu is a one (technically two) button affair so i think it deserves the term
Wait till you experience the guard crush pressure abilities of Erick, Shura, and even Dragon and the Ninjas.
erick and shura i know about but please elaborate on the ninjas and dragon i didnt even know you could guard crush with the ninjas if so damn thats too good
Standing close MP with the ninjas, leaves enough time for c.mk (with fuuma, thats a jump cancel into more pressure with some light damage, with Hanzou, thats a qcf+mk tacked on for a knockdown and damage). Shit is dirty.
Dragon’s c.hp has deceptive range, works well as anti air, and is easy to work in on a blocking opponent as a guard crush because they are ALWAYS blocking (fearing his crazy fast high priority chun-like pokes. His throws, however, are very weak, so turtling vs Dragon becomes common and then its guard crush city!)
Yep, every character in the game has a guard crush - Shura & Gokuu have 2!
Actually Gokuu’s close MK guard crush is probably as good as or better than Dragon’s. I should start using that…
oooh that hanzo guardcrush is ill. tried this shit yesterday with some friends the matches were pretty intense but we’re still getting the hang of the backdash mechanic.
a friend of mine uses brocken and likes to use the flying bomb technique on wake up. backdashing at first fucked this up, but then he got the wiser after the second match and started delaying the drop to still land close enough to cause the 50/50. its all good tho brocken doesnt seem to be to dangerous as long as you stay on your feet and against the ninjas its hard for him to use the fly mode cause he cant beat them air to air or even bait properly thanks to a well timed double jump…
no one really uses dragon but when the next session pops off ill try that guard crush string and see where it gets me
You know that Brocken’s hero super is unblockable upclose? Sadly, every setup for it can be backdashed out of with proper timing (Josh can do it like 90% of the time)… but its still fun!!
The way you have to block Brocken’s missile is weird - I think even if it crosses up, you still block in the original “back” direction.
Brocken is mostly pokes - has a hard time vs. ninjas and fast characters in general. He probably beats Rasputin and goes even with Ryofu, however - Rasp because he shuts down all the projectiles, and Ryofu because low MP/HP beat almost everything.
you guys are fucking sick with this shit. frame data and everything. Its funny how you guys do it for a game that isnt as popular. But for years we didnt have shit for the popular games.
Hats off to you guys. You guys are the shit.
Its mostly Josh. He is spearheading the frame data.
the 50/50 i was referring to is the high low that comes from the missile unless im trippin if it lands on you, you should be blocking high but it if it lands near u or low to your body u block it low.
im pretty sure thats how it works cause this is what ive been doing to avoid that garbage… that and meeting brocken air to air whenever he flys to avoid the trap while im standing…
Interesting, we have to test that out. I know something is weird about that missile, but we need to see just what exactly.
And now, finally, here’s more frame data! Chibi, it’s time for your token jailbait.
RYOKO:
Standing LP: 4f, +3 on standing block, +4 on crouch block, +3 on standing hit, +5 on crouching hit
Far MP: 6f, +6 on standing block, +7 on crouch block, +6 on standing hit, +7 on crouching hit
Close MP: 5f, +8 on standing block, +9 on crouch block, +8 on standing hit, +9 on crouching hit
Standing HP: 6f, +5 on standing hit, +3 to +6 on crouching hit
Standing LK: 4f, -5 on standing block, -4 on crouch block, -5 on standing hit, -6 on crouching hit
Far MK: 4-7f, +2 on standing block, +3 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +3 on crouching hit
Close MK: 7f, +2 on standing block, +3 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +3 on crouching hit
Standing HK: 7f, +1 on standing block, +3 on crouch block, +6 on standing hit, +7 on crouching hit
f/b+HP: 7-8f, +0 on standing block, +2 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +6 on crouching hit
f+MK: 8-18f, -3 to +7 on standing block, -2 to +8 on crouch block, -3 to +7 on hit
d/f+HP: 29f, -2 on block, can cancel to any special/super on frames 11-28
d/f+HK: 29f, -8 on block
Crouching LP: 4f, +6 on block, +5 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
Crouching MP: 5f, +8 on block, +5 to +7 on standing hit, +3 to +8 on crouching hit
Crouching HP: 8f, -1 on block, +5 on standing hit, +3 on crouching hit
Crouching LK: 4f, +6 on block, +5 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
Crouching MK: 8f, +3 on block, +5 on standing hit, +3 on crouching hit
Crouching HK: 6f, -1 on block
Jumping LP: 7f
Jumping MP: 8f
Jumping HP: 6f
Jumping LK: 6f
Jumping MK: 6f
Jumping HK: 7f
Dashing LP: 4f, +2 on standing block, +3 on crouch block, +2 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
Dashing MP: 6f, +3 on standing block, +4 on crouch block, +3 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
Dashing HP: 6f, +1 on standing hit, -1 to +2 on crouching hit
Dashing LK: 4f, -1 on standing block, +0 on crouch block, -1 on standing hit, -2 on crouching hit
Dashing MK: 4-7f, -3 on standing block, -2 on crouch block, +0 on standing hit, -2 on crouching hit
Dashing HK: 7f, +1 on standing block, +3 on crouch block, +6 on standing hit, +7 on crouching hit
Dashing d+LP: 4f, +4 on block, +3 on standing hit, +2 on crouching hit
Dashing d+MP: 5f, +7 on block, +6 on standing hit, +7 on crouching hit
Dashing d+HP: 8f, +13 on block, +19 on standing hit, +17 on crouching hit
Dashing d+LK: 4f, +3 on block, +2 on standing hit, +1 on crouching hit
Dashing d+MK: 8f, +1 on block, +3 on standing hit, +1 on crouching hit
Dashing d+HK: 6f, -5 on block
ABC: Counters most non-low hitting moves on frames 4-18, has 18f recovery
d+ABC: Counters low-hitting moves on frames 4-18, has 20f recovery
qcb+LP: 12f, +8 on standing block, +10 on crouch block
qcb+MP: 16f, +2 on standing block, +4 on crouch block
qcb+HP: 19f, -8 on standing block, -6 on crouch block
dp+LK: 15f, -14 on standing block, -12 on crouch block
dp+MK: 15f, can attack on the way down for a major advantage if not countered
dp+HK: 15f, -10 on standing block, -8 on crouch block
hcf+LP: 1f
hcf+MP: 1f
hcf+HP: 1f
hcf+LK: 38-67f
hcf+MK: 38-67f
hcf+HK: 45-67f
qcb+LP w/ full meter: 12f, +8 on standing block, +10 on crouch block
qcb+MP w/ full meter: 16f, +2 on standing block, +4 on crouch block
qcb+HP w/ full meter: 19f, -8 on standing block, -6 on crouch block
f,hcf+MP+HK: 1f
f,hcf+MP+HK w/ full meter: 1f
NOTES: It?s easy to overlook amongst all this info, but check out that dashing low HP! It pushes you back quite a ways, though, so you can?t infinite with it or anything, but still?
You CAN infinite with repeated dashing low MPs, or dashing HKs on a crouching enemy, but both are extremely difficult.
Also especially noteworthy is the qcb+LP. I can see some super-tight pressure strings with that…
The 2nd hit of neutral HP whiffs on almost everyone crouching.
Low MP should be used as a dash attack, not while crouching. The 2nd hit whiffs on almost everyone if you didn?t dash.
There is never any reason to use d/f+HK, from what I can tell. It has the same speed as d/f+HP but worse recovery and no kara-cancel ability.
All 1f (yes, it?s 1 frame not 0 like I thought) moves can be used as reversals, and all throws fall into this category.
One last bit which I haven’t seen posted anywhere else - her hcf+P command grab is similar to later Capcom command grabs, in that the lighter versions have more range while the heavier versions deal more damage.
Can I get Mudman next, Josh? I’d like to know more about how his corner knee lockdown works.
You got it, sir! He’s probably one of the more annoying characters to figure out, though, so it might take awhile. But he will be next!
enough interest for a tourney yet?
i want my top 3 placing
Id love to. How is tomorow night for everyone?
Please see the topic, and please attend if possible!