World Heroes Gorgeous

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
401

Excellent, always glad to see more interest in this game! I think of it as ST mixed with a bit of Accent Core. =P

Shura tactics:

  • Far st.HP is easily your best poke. Combos into roundhouse tiger knee (even as anti-air), though this is not always safe (see below). It also has a little autoguard. Some characters can crouch it, so be careful.

  • Far st.MK is your closest substitute against small crouching chars or chars who can punish tiger knee. It combos into dash straight/upper and the super.

  • Dash straight is a solid move in general, nobody can crouch it. Theoretically, it becomes especially dangerous at low life because it can link into the super - very difficult to master, but probably the only way to make Shura not suck.

  • Dash upper works well as anti-air.

  • EX dash upper is awesome - completely invincible, a lot of damage, and even a bit of frame advantage on block! EX straight is worse in every area, and can’t even link to the super. =(

  • His flash kick is just d,u+K, no charge needed. You can also move left and right while landing, which forces the opponent to guess right to punish you.

  • You can attack on the way down from tiger knee, but you CANNOT air-block. Against some characters, attacking is enough to keep you safe and continue the pressure, but DPs and high-priority ranged attacks will hit you. If the opponent cannot punish tiger knee, then throw it out whenever you can - it’s great in strings or by itself, and makes for a mean corner lockdown game.

  • He has two guard-crush normals: Low MP and close st.MP. If the opponent doesn’t react quickly enough, you can st.HP -> tiger knee on some characters. Otherwise, you can sweep or s.MK -> dash upper…experiment!

  • Far st.MP destroys high projectiles, low MK destroys low ones.

  • His ABC is a dashing overhead that knocks down, not safe though. If you’re going to try it, always use back+ABC - it has shorter range (not an issue) but less startup. I particularly would not recommend this move against Muscle Power…he can throw you from the d/b position.

  • The super is unsafe, but it combos from practically anything. Do not try to punish extended limbs with it or use it as anti-air; you’ll only get like 1 point of damage.

  • His other practical combos are pretty simple. Close st.LK and low LK both link to low MK, and low MK can combo into dashes or super or even roundhouse tiger knee (have to be quick). Close st.HK hits twice, which makes for a nice super hit-confirm. Low LK -> Low MK -> super is probably the most important of these - definitely easier than the super link, and the main way to combo super with full meter.

Now for Fuuma…I wrote all this before Keits posted, but there should still be something useful. =)

  • Keits’ videos show the basic idea of how he works. He’s actually quite similar to Dragon, focusing on the air game and rushdown, but his DP is pretty nice too.

  • j.MK is one of the best crossups in the game, and an important part of his offense. Very annoying priority from wall jumps, too.

  • He has almost nothing for combos. If you land a jump-in, just sweep or close st.HP -> jump cancel for more offense.

  • He can jump cancel low MK as well, and link two low MKs at close range.

  • Close st.HP, in addition to the jump cancel, gives frame advantage on block! Low MK will stuff just about anything the opponent tries afterward.

  • The air-to-ground throw can be performed with forward to down/back+HP (like Killer Instinct specials). With his great air options and crossup, this is a perfect fit and a major part of his game. You can even grab people while jumping OVER them - have to perform the motion the same way.

  • Close st.MP is the guard crush, just sweep or low MK -> whatever.

  • EX projectiles are invincible. Piddly damage, but a safe reversal is nice to have. They can let you pressure the opponent if distanced properly, too.

  • The big fireball super gives you nice guaranteed chip damage from some knockdowns. I don’t know much about the other one, Keits can help with that.

Hope this helps you out, and feel free to ask any more questions! =)

-Josh

402

My decree: No button mapping in tournaments! You can play this game on a pad - keep two fingers over the buttons, rather than using your thumb. Not hard to get used to. =)

-Josh

403

People do prefer 6 buttons sometimes.

you may have a slightly difficult time attracting the general almost sf exclusive players due to this.:smile:

404

I agree with that and understand… but having a mapped button for HP and HK makes certain combos easier (infinites for kidd and hanzo)… and really, its a flavor of the game kind of thing. If we get a few less people because can’t hit wp+mp to get hp… so be it.

405

i’m actually not a pad player, but i’m currently without one and still waiting on mine to be completed. i find it pretty tough to get hp/hk combos consistently on a pad without mapping them, since whp has tighter execution then say… arcana heart. a friend of mine might lend me an american stick, so if i can get a hold of it, i’ll enter whp.

btw, i understand why you’re not allowing mapping. i should be able to borrow a stick, but i was asking just in case i was stuck with my pad. thanks!

406

i dont think making a rule in favor of “keeping the flavor” as you put it is really all that viable. also in regard to infinites, why would they allowed in tournament play when this is a one on one fighter and basically, the first one to land a hit, provided both players are playing either the top tier or a character who can land said infinite without reasonable difficulty, wins the round?

disclaimer - i play using 4 buttons. this statement is keystroked to be flame retardent.

407

Glad to hear it! I wish I could be there too. Worst comes to worst, I bet any number of the players entering would let you borrow their sticks during your matches.

408

Well, the infinites with Kidd are very situational and require some matchup specific techniques to get going, but on a whole are not very hard. Hanzo’s is quite difficult, though, and would be made easier with a HP button.

The very small ammount of infinites in this game, imho, are hard enough to land that they do not overpower the characters who have them. Its a edge, but nearly everyone in this game has an edge. And I know you play with 4 buttons, man! I watched you beast in Breaker’s.

Josh might be able to explain our reasoning better… i was the most on the fence on the issue until DG and Josh both said that they think we should keep it 4 button.

409

Cool, any education on the matter is certainly welcomed and will be useful for anyone wanting to get information on tournament specific rules for the game.

410

So far, the only rules we have needed to lay out in what I feel is a wonderfully balanced game are…

1.) Zues is banned
2.) Neodio is banned
3.) all buttons must be mapped to either wp,wk,mp, or mk.

Thats it. VERY simple to remember.

411

Good thoughts, thank you! =)

Well, I have always thought infinites should be legal in every game, seeing as nobody has a problem with other 100% combos. Besides, they seem to get the crowd hype - remember Smash Bros.? :wink: This game has a few, so let’s run through them:

  1. Captain Kidd’s blanka hop loops. He has different versions depending on whether the opponent is standing or crouching - it’s either low HP -> hop or standing HK -> hop. These aren’t truly infinites, as they do get pushed back very slowly; the HK version dizzies them in 5-6 hits, and the HP version allows you to combo into EX shark, which stuns them for a jump-in combo.

These death combos are the most practical in the game, but still not easy to land against good players. Low HP has very little range, and most characters can crouch under s.HK. And even on the ones who can’t crouch under HK, you won’t be able to get the death combo from a distance.

In our opinion, with these combos, Kidd is S tier but not quite the best character. His normals are lacking compared to much of the high tier, and his damage output is unimpressive aside from those combos.

The hop is performed with ABC, so on console you can change HP and HK to one-button commands and simultaneouly make ABC a two-button command. This makes a noticeable difference in the execution - I would compare it to the one-button dash in Marvel, and note how many people hate that!

  1. Hanzo’s dashing HP infinite. Dashing HP, cancel to ABC, cancel immediately to another dashing HP, etc. I have seen this in a video but have yet to perform it successfully - execution seems to be kinda like Tekken wavedashing.

Hanzo is another member of the S tier, and possibly the best overall character. But the infinite appears to be very hard and only works from that one move. And allowing button mapping would have a similar effect on this combo as Kidd’s, possibly more since it’s more difficult and requires quicker timing.

  1. Muscle Power’s low LK -> low MK -> LK Lariat infinite. Only works on 3 characters, AND they have to be crouching…not much of an issue. Button mapping would not make a difference here.

  2. Mudman’s divekick infinite. His j.LK can be spammed in the corner for all sorts of madness. But he must execute it right as he leaves the ground, every time, for this to combo. Since it’s a light attack, you WILL get thrown if you mess up. So with all that, if someone can actually kill an opponent in a tournament match with this, I will give him $50 out of my own pocket. Button mapping does not affect this combo.

So of the 4 known infinites/100% loops in this game, the two belonging to top-tier characters become noticeably easier with button mapping. And that’s not getting into all the other useful ABC moves, or mapping B+C to a button (helpful for Mudman’s super).

I have never liked button mapping in other fighters, and Dark Geese has never allowed it in his tournaments. I’m just not seeing a compelling reason to start now, especially if people can play KOF and NGBC on a pad.

Thanks,
Josh.

412

Holy crap. Curse you guys and your ability to write short novels on characters.:arazz: Soaking up info.

Watched a few of ur vids Josh, good work on keeping up the quality and whatnot. We need to get this shit jumpin’ for tha Gamma Bowl.:tup:

413

Two more sets of matches are up, check the usual link.

I think I might be able to tackle my 3 hours with Goukisan today, finally…

EDIT: Captured that mofo! Even skipping over the crappy matches, there’s 72 in all, so it’s gonna take quite awhile to upload.

-Josh

414

Josh and Keits, thanks so much for the info

i’m loving Fuuma now haha. he’s so much fun to play as. =D

415

Josh I will have brackets ready for you etc and will make announcements for signups for World Heroes Perfect on Sunday and I guess you can debrief everyone on the rules for the tournament when they all come okay?

Yes no button mapping…

416

Man my Mud’s come a long way. Thanks for putting all that stuff up Josh! You are doing the community a great service.

Now if only our matches would come up first on a ‘World Heroes Perfect’ search on youtube… as the old ones I learned rasputin off of are pretty bad by comparison.

417

So i know you guys play online with mame and kaillera, but is there someplace that tells me how to set everything up?

I’m really bad at this sort of thing… lol

418

I can help you no problem!

  1. Download the latest version of MAME32 Plus! Plus!. Here are a couple links:

http://ddememame.hp.infoseek.co.jp/mameppk_bin_gcc-0.119-20070917.7z - Standard version

http://ddememame.hp.infoseek.co.jp/neocpsmameppk_bin_gcc-0.119-20070917.7z - Neo-Geo/CPS-only version, for quicker loading.

I prefer the second one for obvious reasons, but it doesn’t really matter. The only difference is the GUI, it doesn’t affect netplay.

  1. Download the latest version of the P2P Kaillera client from http://kaillera.movsq.net/ . Replace the existing kailleraclient.dll file with this one.

This client allows you to switch between normal and P2P Kaillera, and record inputs of your P2P matches without any of the issues that arise with this feature in normal Kaillera. To play the inputs, you will need to go into the client and select Playback mode below P2P.

  1. Once you download everything and set up your controls, go into File -> Kaillera Netplay to start the client, and select P2P. You can either host a game or connect to an existing one. A neat feature in the newest version is that the host can click a button to get his IP address, which the other player needs to type in the window to connect.

  2. Once you’re in the game, both players will need to check the “Ready” box. The host also has the option to record inputs, and that should be checked first if you want to do so. The game will automatically start once both players click “Ready”, and you should be good to go!

  3. The client sometimes has issues starting up - one player’s MAME will freeze or something. If this happens, both players should exit MAME completely and start everything back up. Shouldn’t take more than 1 or 2 tries to get it working, and once the game actually starts I have not experienced any further problems.

Hope this helps you guys out, and we’d love to play you sometime! =)

-Josh

419

OK, now time for some actual new information!

Keits thought that Fuuma couldn’t use the air-to-ground throw on crouching opponents. I tested this, and it turns out he definitely can. You just don’t have as much of a leeway with it, but it’s not THAT hard.

And yall are gonna LOVE this one…

Gokuu has unblockables with the bees! Now, before you get your panties in a bunch, lemme explain. If a bee gets behind the opponent, it counts as a crossup; you have to block it by holding forward. If you can get this to happen, you can get an unblockable with HP -> d,u+LP. You may even be able to land the rock with this!

However, the bees have almost no hitstun - they’re light attacks, basically. So it’s rather difficult to actually combo anything from them, and if the opponent holds back he’ll get hit by the bee but likely block your followup.

I’m experimenting with this right now, but have yet to find a consistent way to score any real damage from it. Gokuu’s combos are very weak, and it’s difficult to safely get the bees out (unless it’s the Hero version), so I don’t think this even comes close to “broken”.

-Josh

420

Josh you are amazing. Thanks so much!!!