I am still waiting on a response where ONE of you will tell me how information revealed today has benefited our nation… Still waiting. Still waiting…
Your point is not lost on me. I’m trying to tell you your point is silly, because reason > tact. To believe otherwise is to subscribe to Kotaku logic, where, no matter how valid a comment is, if it’s even slightly rude (or critical of their editorial slant), you get banned. Being like Kotaku is not admirable. Stop doing it.
Is that what you were doing? Hmm, weird…
What was your excuse before I posted, when you were still spewing drivel like “they can’t publish secrets because that endangers secrets”?
Please explain; I’m interested to know how I factored into your “dumbing down” before I even posted in this thread.
Not true. I saw you posting bullshit and called it out. That’s not gibberish. Perhaps you should confirm the meanings of words before using them.
I’m worried about Portugal. People underestimate it all the time, what with its two chief exports being codfish and cleaning staff. My parents are Portuguese, and if I’ve learned anything from them, it’s that Portugal won’t take this sort of guff; they’ll threaten to do a lot of shit and then fail to deliver. See: The World Cup, Portugal in general.
And let’s not forget Putin. My god, calling him an Alpha dog? Insulting! 
THIS JUST IN: The US says, of Dr. B, “The Postwar Administration Organization considers him a threat of S++ rating.”
I’ve not read the entire thread because so many of the posts seem to be self-righteous and retarded, but are people really under the impression that all of this information was harmless?
The Yemeni President has been allowing the U.S. to fly drone missions and bomb al-Qaeda-occupied areas in secret- he faces backlash now for keeping that secret (along with things that we would consider to be petty, but are a big deal in his country, ie. drinking alcohol).
The U.S. has been trying to handicap Pakistan’s nuclear program, the publicizing of which has flared up [further] anti-American sentiment in the public, and combined with how the leader of Saudi Arabia is [unwittingly] on record publicly criticizing the Pakistani President, the Pakistanis might be inclined to/feeling public pressure to save face publicly.
Iran has had it’s relations with nations in the area made less stable as they have [now-publicly] encouraged the U.S. and others to attack them and otherwise take action against them, and/or otherwise criticized them. Adding to that, it is now a matter of record (to some greater degree) that they’ve obtained missiles from North Korea, which are capable of hitting Europe.
And so on, and so forth. There is clearly potential for discord to arrive as a result of this file dump.
While it is entirely possible that these things are not news at all as far as the diplomatic community is involved (though that’s a rather broad assumption), the fact is that these things aren’t said out loud for a reason. Firstly because some of these leaders are taking actions opposed to the perceptions of their nations/region, and secondly because once certain things are said out loud, they require a response. While I don’t appreciate the duplicitous nature of Middle Eastern diplomacy or diplomacy in general, people might endeavor to ask themselves why these things were left out of the public, if them being public was no big deal.
Swearing doesn’t make a person wrong. Being wrong makes a person wrong. I don’t care if you do or don’t swear. Feel free to call me whatever you want. If you’re wrong like you are now, I sure as fuck am calling you on it.
I hope you realize he’s only given them SOME of their info, it’s not like he is mr wikileaks or anything. Either way, I respect the fuck out of that man. He STILL did something that is technically illegal, but it was the right thing.
It ain’t often I admit I’m proud of an American
And it not being leaked would have done what??? Made the saudi’s NOT want Iran bombed to shit? You’re arguing about shit we pretty much knew about being proven. WTF???
lmfao there have been MANY posts in this thread that answers you question. so AGAIN…read you fucking imbecile (uh oh I swore!). America isn’t falling or any shit. They just got fucking pantsed. Shit happens, get back up, dust yourself off, and hopefully DON’T do stupid shit like this again that will be found out. It’s not like the rest of the world is gonna come attack you now or some shit calms down his fellow Canadians secretly sharpening our hockey skates and moose antlers
For the last time, why the FUCK are you more pissed about this leaking, than it actually happening? If somebody tells me my mom was in an accident, I dont fucking punch him for giving me bad news. I can’t figure out if you’re full blown retarded or just trying to be a troll.
It’s not the media’s job, or my job, or the internet’s job, to protect government embarassment. They fucked up, now they gotta deal with it. If anything, the USA needs to learn how to better protect its data. But no matter how many stupid actions they take, all it takes is one guy who knows right from wrong to do the RIGHT thing.
I’m waiting on a response where this information was non-beneficial. The American people now have more information on what is going on behind their backs, a couple of world leaders actually thought they were good reads, pissed off a couple of people but whatever, they are not ready to go to war over it, because it is basically just GOSSIP.
No information that could potentially harm the American people was revealed.
EDIT: ^Well rolling with the assumption that this is well known by international gov. officials as well…
“So we are in danger because? Again, prove that some sort of substantial harm was done for this man to deserve 52 years in prison or your argument is invalid.”
If Bradley Manning believed that he could reveal all this information without some sort of repercussion then he may indeed be mentally unstable as some are portraying him to be and a 52 year sentence may be thrown out the window. The substantial harm, from my point of view, is releasing secretive documents that contain sensitive inormation not meant to be revealed during wartime. And as it has been said NOT only by Hillary Clinton, but also media hosts, the document could endanger the lives (as well as their career/work objectives) of those it revealed.
No point to continuing this. You offer no point of view, just “u r dumb, dr b said so”.
double post
TS, thanks for sharing this information because you have eloquently put into words thoughts I have been trying to express earlier today (although bereft of the facts you have posted). Thank you.
While there is no way of really knowing for a fact, I’d still like to roll with the fact that most of this is known by the world at whole. The harm done is probably the damage control that will have to be done as a result of the leak, but nothing will come of it(hopefully)…
One of those things that’ll probably get swept under the rug.
EDIT: Sort of make me think of the Bush admin. spying on callers…
People just seemed to forget about it after a while.
It benefits the nation in one way because people are able to gauge how irresponsible and ineffective their leaders are. I understand that within any group there’s going to be gossip and name calling. But when the possibility of war, even on the nuclear scale, or actions that could have an economic effect upon the entire world are in the picture, name calling and gossip become severely less tolerable.
Catchafire: you asked for someone to point out the good that is being done by the documents released.
There is both good and bad being done for sure, and the bad that you pointed out is valid. This will have a detrimental effect on US international relations and the confidence of our allies and informants in providing information, along with causing problems for other nations and their leaders who may be working with us. Trust and an ability to keep things confidential and secret is necessary to being effective in international relations and a lot of institutions: a country not capable of doing this would simply not be invited to the backroom. Just like people, governments need to be able to speak privately to one another in confidence. Fear of repercussion or punishment for stating unpopular ideas (ie. A diplomat stating “Our/Their leader/ally is crazy.”) would lead to the truth actually being suppressed in some important situations.
The good being done isn’t something that is immediate, but involves accountability and transparency being applied to government officials and policies, both in the US and abroad. People are being given a candid look into the way the world functions, and future government officials and policy makers may have to consider that their actions may one day be known and criticized (positively or negatively), and that may influence their future choices; hopefully in a positive way. So the good being done is basically a check against unchecked power, and that can be a good thing even for a nation promoting freedom, as it can help keep them on course if necessary.
Whether the harm done to international relations that you pointed out is greater or outweighs the benefits, is up to each person?s interpretation and may remain to be seen. The world of international relations is an anarchy, so power plays and secrecy are a necessary reality, but absolute power corrupts absolutely, and transparency and free press are a check against them should they get out of hand.
Loose lips do sink ships, but they can also sometimes say “We’re going to fast. There aren’t enough lifeboats. Iceberg ahead.”
Broadly speaking, I’m for transparency,but I’m not exactly a fan of potentially endangering people and creating more Valerie Plames. I haven’t read every single detail that was leaked, I doubt anyone has. I wonder if a few people nodding their heads and going ‘‘the government sure is evil’’ for a few minutes before returning to their videogames and tv shows is worth the potential harm this may have caused.
I’m not arrogant enough to pretend I understand the extent of the damage this may potentially cause, but other than this kind of unmeasurable factor, you know… that we’re somehow keeping the government honest (instead of simply more secretive,) the only ‘tangible’ product I’m seeing from this is forum bickering? Can’t say it’s a good trade just yet.
edit: This dickhead said what I wanted to but better, read the post^
people make it seem like this is news to OTHER COUNTRIES. I’m fairly certain that in the global political funhouse, Pakistan already knows that Iran is hated by the Saudi’s. America isn’t the ONLY source of fucking classified documents.
This is just the first time the public gets to read them.
Dude, show some humility. No one on this entire site is qualified to say what exactly anyone knew, this isn’t a fucking Jason Bourne movie.
…so you’re telling me countries have ability to build nukes, advanced weaponry, computer shit, but can’t possibly know any global secrets…cuz only the USA is the source of secrets.
Stop being a stupid shit.
After something is revealed you’re saying it was already known, to parties who may or may not have been involved, with absolutely no evidence. On top of that, you seem to incapable of comprehending the impact which such exposures could possibly have, independent of their newness.
Why are you making up words for me? I never mentioned America. A lot of this was communications between diplomats and their dispatchers. Emails, files, all kinds of things. Things that can affect interpersonal relationships which are pretty important in establishing diplomatic relations.Things which can potentially endanger people.
I haven’t read it at all. So what I’m saying is, that nobody here really knows the full extent of the damage this can cause, what the full scope of all this information is, and ultimately what good will come of it. So showing a little reserve, showing a little thoughtfulness and simple saying ''I don’t know" instead of running off at the mouth one way or another is really the only sensible thing to do right now.
You’re talking to some spoiled lily-white Candadian trust fund kid who’s screen name is Sovi3t and has a hammer and sickle in his avatar, because he’s some sort of retarded eCommunist jackass. I would suggest you not waste your time.
I would kill to see Sovi3t actually live in the former Soviet Union, or one of their former republics. I would kill.
In order:
- You’re right, but not for the reasons you think.
- Yes I do. It’s “Tanner is a fucking idiot.” And it’s a wildly valid point of view to boot, consistently proven true.
- Dr. B wouldn’t lower himself to your level.