Why would someone use this combo?

I was watching a match video from www.fightclub.com.pk … (exact match video link = www.fightclub.com.pk/media/data/548/6103acho_cs2_20030914a.wmv )

In the 2nd half of the 1st A-Cho video, it was R2 Vice vs R1 Honda. I noticed that Vice was using this combo:

crossup short, c. jab, c. fierce, ground sleeve

instead of the usual

crossup short, c.short, c.jab x2, fierce shoulder ram, air sleeve

So, I’ve got some questions: is the former simply a poke string instead of a true combo? (I never saw it actually combo in the video, although I think the honda tried to retaliate with a headbutt and was caught with the sleeve).

Also, if I’m trying to pull off Vice’s BnB (the shoulder ram combo) and it gets blocked, how safe am I if I choose to end it with a jab shoulder ram instead of a fierce shoulder ram + air sleeve?

The rest of the match was awesome… until Honda pulled off a lvl 2 super cancel and then killed Vice with his 360 throw. sigh … it’s just so much work to win with Vice.

url to website?

searching right now…

[edit] Got it!

Link: That A-Cho R2 Vice Video

Damn… i cant watch wmv at work :bluu:

edit: and i dont think her shoulder ram will ever be safe during a blocked b&b combo.

You can do c.LK, c.LP, c.HP (link) xx shoulder instead of the c.LK x 3, shoulder everybody does instead.

c.HP xx whip is good too. When you’re not sure if you have a guaranteed combo or not…

I like the whip combo because it’s easy, and you can do it if it’s blocked or not…

But the whip has VERY short blockstun… Vice can be hit as she’s hauling back her sleeve… actually, you hit the sleeve, not Vice. You can catch it if you have a really quick attack. Shotos can d.fierce/sweep the sleeve, honda I think can d.jab/strong, Hoah can d.jab/d.fierce, Geese can sweep etc.

This is not easy, and has to be done with reversal-like timing. If not, you’ll just whiff because vice is really far away when she finally gets the sleeve in. For some reason Athena’s low fierce seems to hit the sleeve much easier than others.

If you have a really quick -long- attack you can hit VICE as she’s recovering (not the sleeve). Sagat lvl3 FB, I think Ryu lvl3 FB, Honda lvl3 Headbutt, I would imagine Blanka lvl3, Rock lvl3, Rog’s gigaton blow, and you KNOW Guile can sonic hurricane that shit. :slight_smile:

But like before, reversal timing…

Let’s hope my opponents don’t find this out… shhh. :slight_smile:

I didn’t know that.

Are you saying that Vice can do something like s.MP, d.HP xx whip (all blocked) and then Sagat can Tiger Uppercut Vice’s sleeve after blocking the third hit? Or do you mean uppercutting the whip before it even hits you?

Well, Sagat can DP the d.fierce can’t he? AFAIK s.mp, d.hp doesn’t combo. you mean meaty s.mp right?

And i’m talking about “after” the sleeve is blocked. I wondered if there was a gap between the d.hp aand the whip (like how you can hit Eagle out of his hcf+k move after you block the first hit), but I can’t find a hole. Just fire up the ol’ DC and check it out. After fooling with it for a while it seems like everyone might have at least 1 way to hit it.

Anyhow, against d.lp x2, d.HP, rh Whip… it seems Sagat can’t DP the sleeve, even with reversal timing. But I know he can d.jab it. Go figure. Maybe if she only does 1 d.jab you’ll be close enough for the DP? i dunno.

Lvl3 FB is Cake tho… that sucks. :slight_smile:

I’m going to rob s.mp, d.hp, whip off you… For some reason I ALWAYS try for shoulder check and never thought of the sleeve in that situation. It’s usually blocked so fuck that, I’m gonna do the sleeve until my opponents start hitting me after it…

EDIT: Out of curiousity, I went into training and Sagat can definitely DP the sleeve if Vice only does one jab in that combo instead of 2.

I can’t hit Vice after she does the short sleeve. The HK sleeves can be hit after blocking them, but it’s really inconsistent (I’ll get the reversal message, but my attack will still whiff sometimes). Anyway, I don’t think doing this is practical.

You’re right about the super short block stun of the sleeves though. Combine that with Vice’s moderate recovery, she can easily be punished by all the AHVB style supers in the game.

Really? that’s odd… I found no difference between the short and RH versions. I didn’t find it to be inconsistent either? What combo where you doing? The only thing I found that mattered was range… if Vice does 1 d.jab, you can TU. If 2 d.jabs, you cannot (and some other specials also).

I wouldn’t say that it is impractical to try and hit her… maybe with certain characters that can ONLY hit her with a risky moves that is really hard to time (Vice’s shoulder check). That, and if you can only hit her with a d.jab or something stupid like that… if you DO time it right, you get a lousy d.jab. meh.

But otherwise, I would go for it… Sak can CC. Bison can scissor into CC, or just Psycho Crushah. Vega can slide. Yun can Jab lunge punch. Todo can towards+mk. Hibiki can slash. Sim can hit a button… :slight_smile: There must be other moves that can hit her fairly easily with other characters. Supers seem to be the best… as long as it’s quick and long. Iori can do his beatdown super. Vega can Red Impact. Sim can Yoga Stream. Cammy can Spin Drive Smasher. Etc.

EDIT: Nevermind… you’re right about the short and RH sleeves. I can d.fierce the RH sleeve no sweat with Ryu. I can’t touch the short one (except with Super). It does make a difference in delay… I guess she hauls her sleeve back quicker or something. But everything I mentioned in this post can hit the short sleeve i’m pretty sure.