Why '?' Won

Someone started a thread in the Blackheart section with the purpose of taking BH vids and noting what the BH player did to win and what they might be able to learn from them as an overall BH player.

I like the idea and have actually done something like this before with it helping me a great deal. A large part of understanding how to play a match better is knowing why you lost…the same could be applied to looking at how your opponent won that match. Just as this works personally, it is also helpful to be able to see the same in other player’s matches. It’s not always as easily applied in play, but at least you will know what your goal(s) is/are and be able to work towards it.

I would like to dedicate this thread to pointing out what each winner does from match start:

-where they move
-when they call an assist
-what combo they use
-how they landed a hit
-what decisions they made
-what they blocked

Preppy usually records and/or obtains footage of top tourney play, so I will use his Evo footage for vid reference. Why not start with a first vid of the current MvC2 Evo 08 Top: Justin Wong.

A lot of people agree that it’s not enough to see how a strong player beats a weak player, but more so what they do versus a player just as competent as they are. So, I’ll try and use only vids from Evo for observation to rule out who deserves to be viewed. Afterwards, discussion and questions can follow.

1st Vid: http://zachd.com/mvc2/matches/Evolution/evo2k7/vegas/semifinals/6m%20JWong%20(2W%20SSCC,MSP)%20vs%20SooMighty%20(W%20MSP).wmv

Just focusing on the 1st match tonight.


P1: justin wong (matrix)
P2: ****soomighty ****(msp; w/ storm-lightning attack assist)

Match starts w/ storm and magneto face to face?

Storm starts blocking low first and responds to the quick overhead by magneto with a high block and pushblock, and then blocks psylocke-aa

Magneto sjs to the upper-screen and does AD/F to descend on storm

Storm sjs and does sj.hp, then ad/u and executes a series of sj.hps. storm is obviously floating as you can see by her slow descent?as storm lowers a bit she does lightning attack back into the higher portion of the screen to float with more sj.hps

When she reaches heights a bit lower, she does a series of sj.lks instead of sj.hps until she gets within range of magneto?s assist call. Then, she begins to lower on guard

Magneto calls psylocke-aa when storm gets in range, but storm blocks it

When storm lands, she crouches and calls Cyclops-aa shortly afterwards
Magneto sjs out and away from Cyclops-aa and is pursued by storm who attempts to hit him on his opposite side with sj.lk after he is forced to block cyclops? upwards beam?storm does not connect with magneto b/c magneto pushblocks the beam and is able to suspend shortly

Magneto lowers onto storm, but storm sjs?magneto calls psylocke-aa but storm is out of range. Storm then descends with sj.hps and magneto moves to the opposite corner of storm

Magneto then does a series of sj.hp xx ad/d hp, and storm responds with a sj.hp xx ad/f xx sj.lk, sj.mk xx LA up forward, LA up xx LS xx [DHC to Sent] HSF, s.hk + Cyclops-aa xx sj uf, sj.hp into Cyclops-aa, sj.hk

As sentinel lowers, magneto gets up?sentinel dashes back and does a s.hp
Magneto rose with a psylocke-aa call, to which he then does a sj xx ad/f and lowers

Sentinel cancels s.hp xx fly and flies up and back, but then returns forward with a f.lk on the grounded magneto

Magneto sjs to a height above sentinel and ad/f

Sentinel cancels flight to land, calls Cyclops-aa and dashes backwards to do c.hp?when magneto landed, he jumped up and back while blocking and calling storm-la

Storm hits Cyclops and pops him into the air?magneto does sj xx ad/f and lowers to block sentinels j.hp

They both are on the ground.

Sentinel does s.hp which magneto ducks. Sentinel cancels s.hp to fly and then relands.

Magneto calls storm-la, which sentinel blocks, and dashes forward. When magneto reaches sentinel he sjs to the higher screen and does sj.lk, crosses over sentinel, and falls with sj.hp

Sentinel calls Cyclops-aa and sjs after magneto w/ sj.lk but away from the corner, which magneto blocks

Sentinel then begins to fly and does f.lk to where magneto is, but gets hit by magneto?s psylocke-aa call and falls to the ground

Magneto dashes to where sentinel falls; sentinel rolls towards the corner; magneto responds by sjing and doing a sj.hp and then ad/b to where sentinel will stand once he gets up.

Magneto lands and sentinel rises. Magneto sjs and does a sj.lp at peak height, then descends onto sentinel with sj.hp

Sentinel calls Cyclops-aa and jumps up at magneto but, again, away from the corner. At peak height, sentinel flies and hovers to the opposite screen

Magneto calls psylocke-aa and sjs to sentinels height with sj.lk, but sentinel is out of range; as magneto takes to the air, sentinel cancels fly and lands

Magneto falls onto sentinel; sentinel calls Cyclops-aa and dashes back; when magneto lands he calls psylocke-aa and sjs. Cyclops forces magneto to block, but magneto pushblocks; psylocke hits Cyclops. Sentinel does c.hp xx straight rocketpunch

To his surprise, magneto, just avoiding falling onto sentinels spit, sjs and does ad/f to fall onto sentinel with sj.hp, sj.hk, dash up xx s.lp, s.mp xx ROM start, then ad/df under and past sentinel to the other side. Sentinel responds with a snapback which hits magneto and sends him off-screen

****next time: the match continues with ****soomighty just having his magneto snapped out by sentinel, but now he has storm to fight with

Nice thread. When you break the matchup like that, it becomes easier to think about why stuff did or didn’t happen.

I think this is a great idea for a thread. The text description of the match is alright, but I think we could even try to guess what each player’s basic strategy is. Here’s my interpretation of the match.

Justing Wong (Storm, Sent, Cyclops) vs. SooMighty (MSP)

Justin’s initial strategy is to build meter with Storm and look for the DHC into Sentinel. He tries to stay in the air, outside of Psylock’s range and too high to get caught in an infinite, tossing out HPs to build meter, fishing for LK, MK, Super -> Setinel, which he gets.

SooMighty’s initial strategy was to stay low, and wait for Storm to come down, then call Psylock and use triangle jumps to try to get the infinite (presumably). Unfortunately, he gets caught while building meter by an air-dashing storm.

PART 2: Sentinel vs. Heavily Damaged Magneto.

Magneto wants to get in on Sentinel, he tries to do this with super jump, air dash forward, then block (baiting Cyclops), and calling Psylock sometimes. Sentinel wants to keep Magneto out, he tries to do this by using the mouth beam, fly back, then HP frying pan and/or Cyclops when Magneto dashes in. He’s also waiting for an opportunity to hurt Psylock.

SooMighty calls Psylock to punish a Cyclops assist and super jumps. Justin Wong sees the assist and tries to punish Psylock with Sentinel with HP mouth beam -> rocket punch, but SooMighty jumps quickly enough to avoid the beam, air dashes in, and gets to combo Sentinel. Things look good, but Sentinel falls out of the infinite (too high). Justin Wong tries to call Cyclops to get Magneto off of him, but accidentally gets a snap back, which hits and snaps in Storm.

PART 3: SENT v. STORM

When Sentinel is above Storm, flying, she calls Psylock to get space, then does sj. LK to fish for a super. When Sentinel is far away, Storm super jumps, builds meter, floats forward, waits for the cyclops assist, then tries to get close and call psylock. Storm tries to attack from directly above Sentinel, or directly below (via Psylock assist), but otherwise tries not to engage. Air dashes tend to be UF, or directly forward if Cyclops is already out.

Sent tries to keep Storm away like Magneto, basically, but yields to temptation and tries to come in for stomping, presumably because he’s not worried about a Magneto one-hit-kill.

Storm gets a quick LK, LK, super against a flying sentinel that had to back off due to Psylock, later lands a Psylocke assist -> air combo -> super -> DHC for the kill.

PART 4: CYCLOPS v. MAGNETO

Cyclops switches out as soon as possible via DHC.

PART 5: Storm/Cyclops v. Magneto/Psylock

Storm tries to kill magneto with cyclops assist -> hailstorm. Gets lucky, kills him.

Part 6: Storm/Cyclops v. Psylock/Storm

Psylock tries to switch out to Storm as quickly as possible, but can’t get the super & dies.

Part 7: Storm/Cyclops v. Storm

Both storms do a lot of triangle jumps and random hailstorms. Justin Wong gets lands an HK while floating down, beating SooMighty’s standing HK (looks late), gets a combo, then spams assist -> hailstorm 3 times to chip for the win.


Second and third match are much shorter, and not really as interesting.

Match 2: Same strategy as before, but this time Magneto lands a double snap as the first landed hit, kills Sentinel immediately. Lands a hit on Cyclops, but seems to be trying to be tricky, and Cyclops falls out of the combo. Justin Wong immediately switches back to Storm via DHC. Lands another snap back, almost kills Cyclops, but again is trying to be tricky, and Cyclops falls out.

Justin Wong tries to get uppercut -> super. He has three bars of super, so the first time he tries it, even though he hits an assist, he doesn’t go for the DHC because he thinks Cyclops is safe. SooMighty immediately DHCs to Storm to punish.

With two levels of super left, Justin immediately switches back to Storm via DHC. Lots of bullshit, Justin’s Storm dies.

With only one character left, Justin tries to intercept Storm during SJs with HP or HK. When storm is on the ground, Cyclops does a lot of dash back -> FP optic fireball. Presumably the dash back helps protect him from Psylock assist, and FP optic fireball can hit Storm if she tries for hailstorm. If Storm uses an assist to take the hit, Cyclops could still probably use optic blast to knock her out of the super.

Also, the ever-popular psychic DP -> super.

SooMighty gets hit by one psychic DP -> super, then tries to get in. Cyclops dies, but he couldn’t really do anything, anyway. :frowning:

Damn you guys are really breaking it down. Nice.

This was a great idea Judge, makes it easier to understand whats going on in the match.

Really nice. I especially took a liking to the assumption of the accidental snapback by Sent on Mag after the x-up. Good stuff

Yeah, there are a lot of morsels to take from this one match. I’m not going to sum it up until actually finishing…although finishing the transcript is really not necessary since Shadowless ran through XD Then again, I’m taking a more literal approach and he deduced the strategy(ies) at hand. Nice

reminds me of what ts used to do for a-cho a3 vids

good shit

I try to do this stuff constantly, in my head, when watching videos

nice idea

good to get others’ input

this is where it’s at people: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=167048

get some