I’m glad that I ain’t the only one and forget those monkeys, Guile in SF:IV imo needs the more beefy reaches, because let’s be serious, this isn’t like SFII anymore to where Guile can land two/three hits and it takes off a boatload of life, plus his turtling game in there was nearly invincible when played right, I’m talking about his WW/CE/HF days, not post. Damage overall in SF:IV pales in comparison to SFII, and this gives more merit to him getting his pokes beefed up again.
I know that some people might say “Well he was one of the strong characters in CvS2 and that Guile didn’t have the beefy pokes.” However CvS2 Guile although may not have had the beefy pokes, he had other things that made him beast. Like C-Groove with his excellent Lvl 2 super cancels, rolling/rcing, and he had one of the single greatest lvl 3 supers in the entire cast with Sonic Hurricane.
Personally even if you gave him the more beefy c.mk in SF:IV, this isn’t going to magically make him Top, it’s just going to be make him have a stronger Sonic Boom setup that will improve him, which to me is his bread and butter. He’s still going to have difficulty trying to land his Ultra which plays a large part in why other stronger characters like Ryu, and Sagat are so beast. So this isn’t going to landslide Guile to the top, just that it’ll make him more of a contender then he is now.
Imo, Guile doesn’t need anything new, just simply give him better reaches on his normals, and he will move up, I guarantee it. Just my two cents.
Nice post, Seph… and here I was gonna make some commentary about it how it was a Japanese led plot (and provide anecdotal evidence from my time living there) wanting to gradually undermine a symbolic representation of the America, and how Ken doesn’t really count since he’s 1/2 and deep down really wants to be Japanese. </tinFoilConspiracyTheory>
Not a whole lot to add here, but yes, I can see the original poster’s sentiment, particularly if we’re just talking about the “pure street fighter” games (none of the cross-up titles).
I like how characters have weaknesses. Guile may have weak cross-up counters, but you know this. Your game-plan should be to avoid your weaknesses to the best of your ability, and if someone can exploit your inability to counter a certain move, he deserves to win. Guile is a great character and doesn’t need anything, which is evident with his never-changing moves.
Guile is juuuuuuuuuuuuust fine. His combos are linkable (BOTH SUPER AND ULTRA) and although his Flash Kick has lost some priority, his other AA normals make up for it. Just takes some practice to time them differently.
While I’d certainly like to see Guile be a little stronger than he is, I honestly don’t mind playing as him presenting a little more challenge. At least this way I’ll get less people whining saying I’m only playing a character cause he’s high up on the tier list. I’ve been a Guile and Ken player for years, and even if Guile happens to be less awesome in this than SF2 it’s not going to stop me from using him in a lot of situations.
That being all said, SFIV seems to be a real rude awakening for Guile players to step up their game or give up altogether. Crouching forward is nothing compared to previous games, and his flash kicks certainly leave something to be desired. At the very least I’m not too upset with damage on his EX moves. I’m pretty sure this is the first SF game I’ve played where I’ve actually been disappointed in Guile’s normals. I’ve always liked the slow, methodical workings of playing Guile, but with his normals like they are I really feel like I need to entirely change the way I play.
Side question: I’m a little out of the loop having not been on SRK for many months, but is there honestly going to be any console update that will rebalance anything? I just can’t picture Capcom patching a released game with different balance than before, I more picture them releasing another retail product.
(Sorry if I missed some big thing, it’s been awhile and am just trying to get back into the swing of things around here)
Yeah through the SF2 games people gained new moves, but Guile didn’t need them. He was insane in WW and CE with just what he had. He has no space that really needs filling. His basics change up, that is about it. He gets new Supers as well from time to time.
Guile just does not need anything else, and it kinda goes against his concept to give him more moves. Flavor-wise, he keeps his fights simple and straight forward, wastes no energy or actions, and is precise. True military badass. Tactical.
I remember an article I read once in a Martial Arts mag by a Top Sambo practicioner when asked for advice for people looking to learn self defense. His advice, don’t learn to much. Why? The less options you have to sort through in a combat situation the more likely you will make the right decision and execute it properly in time for it to matter. Guile has a staple of good basics to help with his pokes, interrupts, and two in ones and has two solid specials that do everything he ever needs to do. If they gave him a special grab for instance, you would be have another option to go for and be more likely to make a mistake. Not very efficient, and giving him that move would likely require weakenning his already staple moves.
All he lacks in SF4 is a reliable way to get his Ultra in. Fix would be to be to give him Charge Partitioning on his Super and Ultra or to negate the need to charge during a FADC. This would help Claw as well actually.
I’ve never been a Guile player but I love Charlie and I’m sick of Ryu mirror matches so I’m converting to Guile. If you wanted another new move what about like a E. Honda grab move that he has and instead he does a swim move around the opponent and breaks their neck.
Also when they come out with the next version of SFIV if they just change Guile’s ultra to :qcf::qcf::hp::hp::hp: or :dp::dp::hp::hp::hp: then you can guarantee a jump in the tier list.
Whoa, wait! I’m an avid Guile user (always have been) and I love him in SF4! But you can combo into his ultra FROM his super?! :nunchuck:Oh Hell Yeah if that’s legit! Gonna work that into my play if I can prove that!
Guile’s new ‘Moves’ are in the form of adjusted normals. He has so many different normals that I play him like a rock… mostly dull and heavy.
His Flash Kick has a bit more horizontal range these days, and he seems pretty easy to cross up – but even if he’s considered the worst character in this game, I’m horrible against him (Chun-Li). I’m not great with Twitch Hosenka unless it’s on a SB (which they usually stop tossing).
As for suggestions for improvements/modifications for Guile, here’s a few:
Make final hit (or STRIKE!!!) from his Ultra Combo take off 2 to 3 times as much damage as it does presently. It’s only fair Capcom does this since Guile requires a user-unfriendly Z-motion to pull of his Ultra. Or give Guile a left/right/left/right motion instead of the Z-motion for his Super and Ultra.
Give Guile a special throw…but not a 360 move since that would make him too powerful. Let’s say, make it a throw with a right/left + HPHK combination that takes the same amount of life away from the opponent as a HP or HK. It would be a military style throw that slams the opponent into the ground…but the impact would send the opponent into the air and make him vulnerable to Guile’s repertoire of moves and ultra/super combos. This move would come in handy if you wanted to charge at the opponent and be more on the offensive side in the SF IV style of gameplay.
Give Guile a military style dodge/escape of enemy fire (e.g. Hit the deck as with a bomb or army style crawl underneath projectiles.)
Mid-air sonic boom or flash kick.
Stronger HP and HK or double hit HP and HK.
Now, I’m not saying they should add all five mods. But if they added 1,2, and 5, then that, in the right hands, should vault Guile up as a top 10 tier character.
Please note that these are only suggestions and I’m not sayin’ Guile is a douche. Guile has been one of my favorite characters since SFII ('91) days. And I believe Capcom went overboard with regard to trying to neutralize him into a mid tier character but really ended up making him into a lower tier guy in the process. In SF II, he was a character with an excellent defensive game with a great offensive game in the right hands. Now in SF IV, he still has a great defensive game…but only a mediocre offensive game. These suggestions should give his offense some more juice and make him as well-rounded as in SFII.
Guile’s move is perfect, yes, in SF2. Not anything beyond that
My complain for Guile is his famous Suicide Kicks. If you execute it, you are pretty much looking for a suicide attempt in SSF4 engine.
Double sweep (c.hk)
Problem:
Opponent has more than enough time to react after blocked the first kick. FA, c.mk (follow by all shorts of FADC crap), you named it.
Slow recovery
Can’t Cancel
High Risk, low reward
Can only be used for hit confirm
Upside Down Kick (s.hk)
Opponent has pretty decent time to react and counter it
Slow startup
Slow recovery
Can’t Cancel
High Risk, reward is not good enough to justify this move
Problem
Yes, the moves are unique and cool, it works extremely well in SF2, because no such thing is FA and Parry in SF2. But I really find no reason how these two moves give Guile any advantage in SSF4, instead it became a liability to Guile, these two moves need to be improved, or removed in SSF4 Engine. Because SF4 system has this thing called FADC which pretty much screwed up the two moves above
Well, the argument that Guile doesn’t need more moves is sort of invalid. Did Ryu, Ken, and Sagat need more moves? Probably not, but they got them anyways and I think that is the overall point. I also do not agree that giving him more moves would go against his play style. When Ryu had his side kick move, it just gave him more pressure options, but didn’t change his style of play. Ken having a roll at one point just gave him more in’s for mix ups, but again, did not change his overall style. They basically just gave them more tools and more options to do what they are already good at doing. So, giving Guile a extra zoning tool wouldn’t be so bad imo. Maybe a up boom? Like gokens up fireball, but that might look tacky or be a little op in some regard. If not, maybe a command back roll to create more spacing. I dunno, just throwing stuff out there.
… although, all you need to make Guile over the top at this point is to make his Sonic Hurricane qcf x2 or even hcf x2 PPP. They did that for Chun’s and Bisons Ultra 2 (although, they changing it for bison already), don’t see why they can’t do that for Guile. Its not like FK FADC Ultra 2 does that much damage anyways, but at least it give a reliable way for him to connect some real damage to make a come back without having God like execution.
If they make Guile’s ultra and super quarter circles, I will find a new character to play. Guile is a full-blooded charge character and it works great no need to change it. Also I found that once I got use to the U1 motion it’s a lot quicker to pull off than 2xQCF
I Honestly think people associate guile with two moves, but in reality he has 3 moves. His air grab alone is unique it is used more than any other air grab in the game by far, and has more setups. Another thing I believe that makes it his 3rd special is the fact he can throw you behind him hence getting out of the corner. Chun-li ,Vega etc can throw you but its all about guessing a jump, guile can literally set you up for a air-grab. Just food for thought besides what Gilley said that made perfect sense you can’t add something because the outcome would be to unreasonable.
Guile doesnt need any more changes. This is the closest to a perfect guile as were going to get. Giving Guile a QCF ultra is beyond retarded might i add.
