I play T.Hawk and I have a friend who I play against often who uses El Fuerte, and I constantly lose to him. My friend tells me El Fuerte really sucks, but I’m not seeing it so far. I know he relies alot on mixups, but they seem pretty effective and unpredictable to me since it’s so fast. Can anybody give me some specific details as to why he’s not good? Are his normals bad or something? Are his moves too unsafe? Is he really free? Thanks (Don’t troll please :)).
You said it yourself. His moves are too unsafe.
While his mixups can be very effective, he’s one back dash away from death
His specials are all pretty unsafe in many situations.
he has 3 glitches that work against him (Guac trade, Backrun wall deadzone, clFP xx ex run xx slide whiff glitch)
He’s a false glass cannon; Low health, and low damage outside of the very risky RSF
His wake up options are not very good. Keep him on the floor and you’ll see what I mean.
His ultras are really only for defensive/Punishing purpose
His normals have a learning curve on them. the crouching jab and far jab helps him a lot more then I thought it would.
I’d say he’s [S]prolly[/S] free to grapplers on knockdown. 50/50 mixups hurt him badly.
Against someone who is marginally effective with a safe character, you have to really work hard.
You have to be able to deconstruct their patterns, and force them to make mistakes…As Fuerte, you should not win against a good player if you cannot find your way into their head and give them bad reads.
He deals in 50/50s, but there are loads of other mixup oriented characters that are considerably more consistent. Even his runstop pressure is obliterated by mashing reversal, throw, or quick pokes…Elf doesn’t always use those tools because they are safe, he uses them to gauge the opponent and put pressure on them…It also ends in Oki, so that is good.
I use Gen on a very close level to my Elf…and my Gen may not be as good as my Elf…but he is SO much more consistent, meaning that I get more more wins more often…My Elf matches are explosive and awesome, but even the closest don’t always secure me the win, each match against an intermediate-high level player is either me getting blown up, or blowing them up…There is no consistency at all, and if I am playing a rock…I can even blow myself up with Elf, but never Gen.
Densuo’s words were very true to his point.
^^^ i agree, I win because i have exp with fuerte. but when I use my secondaries for fun, I do good against peoples mains. Fuerte teaches you to think outside of the box though. If you think with fuerte, youll learn how to think in a match, which i think is really important and helped me learn how I think to this day.
Thing is though, the character is limited. he has very unsafe options with more risk than reward. The mobility is his main key. His safer options are pretty decent but, its easy to become predictable as a player when ur going for the safe options. so you make calculated guesses. and if you try to be unpredictable and u guess wrong, you get punished wayy too hard.
Going on with what sPaB said, Fuerte teaches you that regardless of the character you play as, you must be unpredictable as much as possible.
I think Fuerte teaches the Importance of maximizing damage. Doesn’t matter what character I use. Everytime I get an opening it’s "big damage NOW. "
There’s a downside to though. While you may have gotten the big damage, you won’t necessarily have the mixup potential right after your damage. Of course, if reading with Fuerte teaches you anything, you can just say “Fuck this, get back over here so I can finish kicking your ass!”
Why’s he not solid in AE? Two things:
- Loss of Tortilla invincibility.
- Guac recovery.
^ For one, it isn’t necessarily his AE changes that we are talking about too. Fuerte has never truly been “solid” when you analyze him as a character.
A solid character can minimize risk/reward in their favor, so that the other person is the one taking all of the risks. Etc.
Those nerfs hurt him sure, but honestly, his weaknesses have always been there, they just show a little bit more now in AE. It doesn’t help that a couple meh matchups got worse, and he doesn’t have the tools to deal with the twins.
I always felt like Elf was a competitive character in Super.
He was not solid before both of those things, he just sucks.
Pick a top tier.
CAUSE YO MAMA
imo the best version of el fuerte was in vanilla sf4.
RSF with that big stun really scared your opponent to do mistakes or get baited. it was really unpredictable.
in super it was toned down but he still was a useable character. in AE… man, i dont get the balancing guys at capcom. why make a character worse then he already kinda is? thats why i stopped using him as a main-character in AE, only goes as second now or for fun.
makoto, its on.
He’s not solid because CAPCOM has never wanted him to be solid.
Of course he’s not solid… He’s pixels. NOOB THREAD!