Short swing blow is my friend. Blocking is really hard to do in this match up. As long as he doesn’t have Ultra 1 stocked I try to pressure. My main thing is now is using jab MGB to try to keep him honest with sliding focus attacks. Overall it sorta like the Sakura match-up, whoever gets the momentum first will usually win by a large margin. Dudley’s pokes are kinda free to Hakan’s oil, he can even beat crouch/stand strong buffering as some ranges if you’re not careful. His crossup roundhouse lololol.
[Edit - Thought this was a QnA thread, so magnificently off topic]
Welcome friends, to my very first SRK Post:
Enjoy as I make bold claims and lack credibility.
TLDR;
8-2 Dudley
Hakan can’t Oil.
Dudley Vs Hakan is pr’y fackin fray.
Disclaimer
My primary training partner is a pretty mean Hakan. My theory is that he possesses a biological oil clock.
He has an uncrouch-able off of every conceivable knockdown/air-reset and knows the variations of post slide (and therefore post combo) on every character.
He is fluent in Grappler, an ST.Hawk (no infinites…yet…no seriously we’re ass at everything but AE.)
P4A Kanji (Setups for days, don’t just lie there.)
I will not pretend we would tournament caliber players in comparison to stronger, more metropolitan scenes.
Our scene is quite small and naturally that limits our exposure to Match-Up fighter 4.
That being said, I would vouch for his intelligence and credibility any day of the week and I will not
blame him for this matchup feeling so free.
This is pretty seat of my pants, feel free to call me out on my bullshit. I will be sure to test these claims during my next AE session with him.
I DO NOT PLAY ONLINE, I AM FROM A SMALL SCENE.
The Hakan player taught me how to play this game, therefore it must be acknowledged that we have had each other completely downloaded for years now.
Despite this, and the arising Group-Think, I will do my best to offer general advice and match-up guidance.
The main obstacle I forsee is that
AUDIO CUES AND PERIPHERAL VISION ARE A LARGE PART OF MY GAME.
I will attempt to write this without referencing that.
You can’t beat virgin olive oil…seriously.
Oiled Hakan destroys Dudley, completely free. Ok, wonderful. Enjoy your 12 seconds of oil at the beginning of a round, these 12 seconds are in your hands.
After that it’s time for a disgusting beat down. More on that later.
Know Thyne Enemy #1: The neutral game.
Either learn Hakan or find a reliable training partner. He has his slidey-forward normals and normal-cancelled dashes which you will have to footsie against.
Ranges to learn are his lvl1 focus attack, step kick, shoulder check (fwd-strong or fierce, I’m not sure).
KTE# 2: Amateur Fireman of Turkish Skies
Hakan’s anti-air is quite powerful, but eclectic. The intricacies are something that you can exploit if you have a good jump game.
Standing he possesses:
Stand Jab or Fwd Jab. I will clarify this in an edit but his primary grounded anti air is one of his jabs.
It has a great hitbox for about 1 active frame, then ceases to be a threat. Competent Hakan will have mastered it.
Standard Honda/Hawk Jesus Chop.
Slow and painful, hurts and resets into an uncrouchable DDT.
Mash that duck jab if you get hit by it and he is outside of Oil Rocket.
SLIIIIDE HAKAAAAN ATTAAAACK
This only works as a trip guard. Ergo Jumping has it’s place in this matchup as you condition/download Giant Enemy Hakan.
No spacing of Jump Roundhouse will reliably beat this, dream on.
Though early Jump Roundhouse will clean house on his standing normals.
Air to Air is not fun.
He has an AirThrow, though this is primarily part of his OKI game to punish wake-up neutral jumps.
It is used in the corner when other set-ups are unavailable.
He has his Jump strong, will combo into slide. Bad news, primary reason for not jumping. Strong air-to-air. Terrible jump-in.
When Hakan inputs Jump Back Fierce he flips you off with both hands and laughs at your attempts to fight him.
If you get hit by this be wary of respective heights. If you recover first, duck in for meter/movement, if he recovers beware of uncrouchables.
If you weren’t jumping pursuit Ex-Duck-FollowUp is the best way to get something off of this.
KTE# 3: If Hakan Jumps at you my guide is redundant.
Oiled Hakan does not need to jump outside of Oki setups and air to air as anti-air. You shouldn’t even need to read this section:
Hakan’s jump arc is low and floaty. If you find him jumping at you with a reaction primed I don’t know what to say:
You just won the match.
Take your pick of anti-air.
Ex-Duck is amazing as always.
(Anyone got any tips on only getting 1 hit for more potent juggles?)
Uppers are par for the course.
Jumping Hakan is free to Low Roundhouse/Crab-punch/Flapjack/The wave
Abuse this against monkeys.
Once again, you should not find yourself in this situation against an oiled Hakan, but be ready for it.
Scrubs abound.
Grease stains on your petty coat: The Close Game
I assume you gentlemen are used to controlling the field once you get ‘in,’ by that I mean the range at which you can weave small distances with your walk speed
and threaten with Jabs to get to boss-crouch short/target combo range.
Pretty terrible place to be. Oiled Oil Rocket (Cmd Grab) has impressive range, 3 frame startup (which is a blessing, will explain later.)
Should you find yourself forced to fight up close attempt to capitalize with the primary attempt being to build meter.
If you get a confirm, knock him down and get out. THIS IS NOT BOXER, Jet Upper will connect from silly ranges. Milk the meter gain.
Confirming with Dudley takes practice, get passive awareness of how many lights you can get while still combo-ing into St.Rndhouse -> Upper.
DDT should be un-reactable with uppers if Hakan is semi-competant. Duck Jab is your primary tool.
Please don’t go for throws, they have no reason to hit. OSing vs oiled armored backdash is such a chore
(Not sure if it’s possible, perhaps TuT has some 'not technically OS’s but might as well be despite armour)
Do not back dash liberally. Sliding forward focus attack will ruin your day.
That being said, if you can get away with it, it’s brilliant.
Meter is the biggest factor here. Ex-Oil Rocket is a powerful tool.
0 Meter Hakan: Fight back to prevent jab pressure, jab -> strong target combo vs armor gimmicks.
1 Meter Hakan: Bait Oil Rocket and you win the round. Still, crafty Hakan will get the better of you by properly utilizing this threat.
2+ Meter Hakan: Is it round one? Despair. Is it round two? Deal with it.
Oiled light pressure -> slide FADC -> more pressure should be a guaranteed 360 for any grappler worth his salt.
Super Hakan: Hope he uses it? There is no need to compartmentalize this as anything other than 2+.
Oiled Jab pressure is terrifying, you will not have a single frame of advantage during these strings, pure-counter hit bait, stay frosty
Better option is not to allow him to get in at all if it can be helped.
Segue to
Oil Country: The Mid Game
Much more simple and straight forward.
He will rush you down. Avoid this.
You are about to learn the limited range of your target combos, do not rely on them for focus break.
Hail mary duck straights is a good way to get bodied.
If you’re truly that impatient do lp-machine gun blow then make him guess. I don’t recommend it.
Play a game of ranges, one of your biggest opportunities is a successful whiff punish on his step-kick(fwd.roundhouse) and Shoulder Check (fwd.Strong).
You will be seeing a lot those, along with dash low shorts. Get used to them.
Oiled Hakan’s Fwd-Fierce, a slow double palm becomes reminiscent of Dudley Fwd.Fierce
I do not know if it will be standard arsenal, my training partner pulls it out when he feels he has a read on me.
Walk backwards when you need to, pokes are a tool to delay for time. The clock is ticking.
I cannot give very much useful advice her, it is all on your judgement.
Forward Fierce is suicide. Stand Fierce has it’s place, though rarely.
Your workhorse pokes of FAlvl1->dash, Low Forward, and Crab Punch are liabilities.
Crouch strong retains standard utility, all 2 active frames of it -.-;;
Hakan should be analyzing your rhythm Stand Pokes are slide bait.
This is the part of the match-up you have to practice.
YOU SHOULD NOW BE ABLE TO REACT TO OIL DIVES WITH JET-UPPER
Do NOT get hit by a footsie oil dive, please. For me.
Oiled Ex Slide is a 0 Frame full screen sweep. Shit is scary. Little hurts more than getting a whiff jab hit by this bullshit. Watch your feet.
Slides are only meaty from obscene ranges, even the slow moving jab slide. They are all easily punished by Roundhouse->Special
Though if confirming with Jabs nets you more meter I recommend this. You will face Pre-Oiled Hakan up to three times. It is good to get some wiggle room.
IF HAKAN OILS IN THE NEUTRAL GAME YOU MAY PUNISH WITH THE HIGHEST AVAILABLE MACHINE-GUN BLOW, he will lose oil time and take damage.
EX-MGB -> Juggle -> Knockdown is OBSCENE, it eliminates oil.
Fierce MGB leaves you at 0. Will have to test range interactions with DDT and 360.
Air Dry: Fullscreen
Enjoy it. Only threat is full screen ex-slide gimmicks.
If you have 1 meter stocked lick your chops. Wait for oil to run out/inevitable "maybe I can oil just once and coward crouch"
Attempts. (Hakan’s who know the matchup won’t do this.)
Meterless -> SSB for that meter, be wary of slide.
An oil attempt punish with Fierce MGB will give him net gain from max range.
2 seconds of oiled Hakan can hurt you.
JUDGEMENT.
Alright, that’s a start. Going to post this then edit for non-neutral game/unoiled.
Exxon Valdez: Hakan’s Oki THIS SECTION IS INCOMPLETE! I WILL BE TESTING THE TRUTH OF MY CLAIMS SHORTLY!
Hakan’s Oki can shut down certain members of the cast. He has hilarious inescapable OS’s to force block. Should you block it’s a standard Grappler Tic-Throw game from Dry-Kan or that badass oil pressure should he be lubed up. Admittedly I am not-knowledgeable of Normal-Cancelled Backdashes AS OKI, please feel free to fill me in.
Zero fucks given by Dudley.
I’m going to make this easy for myself and set up the template for Hakan’s knockdowns.
I will post Oki tactics and Oil-Up alternatives.
Back Throw
Forward Throw
Slide
Oil Rocket (SPD)
DDT
U1
U2
My friends, I hear your protests, “CrabMangler, you verbose scrub cunt! All you have given is reasons hakan is good and dudley has difficult what are you on about 8-2 NOOB.”
Before a petition is signed to get me banned, hear me out.
There is a punchline to this joke.
Hakan always has the choice between Oki and Re-Oiling after a knockdown.
My friends. Dudley REMOVES that choice.
EX-MGB and U1 not only prevent Hakan from Oiling in the neutral game, many of his re-oil setups are unsafe against them.
I will list these after testing.
I can only say ONE oil setup is safe for certain right now, I will eat my humble pie and list the others when testing reveals my hubris.
Even this is not free.
After a SLIIIIIDE follow up ATTAAAACK Hakan may do a light oil shower. If timed frame perfect he will recover two frames after Dudley’s reversal window.
There is a special move buffer, so this is pretty easy. I will tell you right now, it is visually confirm whether there was a delay
in the input.
This is merely a gimmick, but it is good to know. If you see Hakan reset to his standing animation Mash out a Fierce Jet Upper.
I do not take this into account when giving my matchup scores.
Hakan’s most potent Oki OS’s come from a safety-timed “cross over” jump roundhouse or forward off of knockdowns.
His jump ins cause a great amount of block-stun and the follow up Jab is a true block string.
Basic formula -> Dp’s whiff. Escapes get OSed into Oki loop. Pressure for hit confirms into slide. Threat of Command Grabs.
The crossover/OS/Blockstring just doesn’t work on Dudley. Ex-Jet Upper hits above him. The Hakan Board BnB set-up is unsafe.
He can do manually timed 4f safe jumps. Respect them if you feel so inclined.
Closing Out On Un-oiled Hakan
Terrible normals, no back dash, no reversal, no way to oil, most free oki imaginable.
Your crouch short out-ranges Dry-Oil Rocket. Pressure, build obscene amounts of meter.
He gets a choice of:
a single guess with Ultra 1
or
no safe-jumping in on his wake-up with Ultra 2
as his only defensive option.
Go nuts.
Icing on the cake
Oil Rocket is 3 Frames -> does not punish light punch machine gun blow.
Jet Uppers are throw invincible -> so this is what a dragon punch feels like.
Going have to read that on an empty bladder sorry.
But ya Hakan is free to Dud. SSB and Jet Upper beats out all his mix ups (except slide reads ofc)
It’s like the Hugo vs Dudley match up in 3S
squeaky feet beats ssb, so does neutral jump and focus. If he has ultra, you’re taking a huge risk by even pressuring him to begin with.
His neutral game and hurtbox makes it hard for dudley to get in on the ground unless he’s whiffing a bunch of normals. Can’t jump at him since he can anti air you cleanly. If he has oil you can’t do your mixup at all. If he is unoiled but has meter/ultra you still kind of have to respect him.
I personally think it’s 5.5-4.5 Hakan favor, but that’s me.
ultimate street fighter announced moved me back here… Looks like thirtyfour might have to put work into another tut it seems.
He’s going hard on Poison. Take up the mantle Renegade
Poison… gonna tame dat ass with my rolento then dudley.
NO. I love that tut. I hold it to my chest and loved it like every Loss I ever received. BUT I’m hoping that with the buffs Dudley is going to get, no one is going to have to work that hard to break down this character again. Dudley’s potential and ability should be as apparent a his standing neutral footwork animation come USFIV. My fingers are crossed and my butt is tightly clenched in desperate hope and jolly anticipation .
Dudley is low tier because he entirely depends upon the opponent fucking up to get anything done. He has abysmal frame advantage in nearly every situation except point fucking blank and even then being off in your timing a frame or two means you’re getting counterhit jabbed into full combo.
He is missing shockingly obvious traits on many of his moves that would just be a given on any other character (SSB armour break, lp.mgb being -2 and not -1 on block, some horizontal distance on any of his AA’s) and the recovery times on his best footsie normals are just inexcusable.
He is absolutely free on wakeup.
However, having said all that, Dudley is one of the better characters for getting successful reads on your opponent. The level and variety to which he can punish you for getting a good read on is probably one of the best in the game and he can pretty much seal a round off of two correct reads with a little meter to spend.
Lol@anyone who thinks this character is low tier after watching how someone like Smug exploited his strengths. I just think people who pick him up are ass cheeks to begin with.
Dudley sucks. Smug is good, but he also benefits from a lot of people not knowing how to play the matchup, or what is/isn’t safe. He should be much better in Ultra though.
Guess we can say the same for gen! Match up knowledge is mostly unknown.
I’ve always wanted to learn Dudley but every time i come over to this forum my dreams are shattered by the members crying about why Dudley isnt good. first thing you would hear is “once he’s knock down” many characters suffer from such. After i saw Smug beasting i forgot all about what i’ve read. Dudley is a come back beast,dmg master and reset monster and frame trap pitbull.
Smug gives a lot of pros a run for their money, and I believe that goes beyond them not knowing the match up. Dudley is an under played character, but there are still a lot of people running him.
Beats PR Rog. Loses to Poem.
Just because you’ve played against a Dudley doesn’t mean you really know the matchup. The game isn’t so simple that you can just play a character a couple times and know how to deal with every situation.
I think Smug is a very strong Dudley player and probably has the best offense in the world with the character. However, I’ve seen him play against some of our TX players that know how to handle player and it’s nowhere near as charming as his highlight videos. He suffers from impatience on defense and a weak ground game, something players with more intricate match up experience will be able to exploit.
Nope. He’s trash like Vega, Oni and Makoto.
Kappa.
Every character is capable of winning in this game. Some just have to work a hell of a lot harder than others. The majority of Dudley’s matchups are not favorable for him, that’s a fact. We’ll see how things play out in Ultra though.
No. It’s obvious when someone isn’t punishing point blank moves that are -3 or more on block that they don’t know the matchup. Smug and HJMxp get away with making some really unsafe plays much more often than you would expect.
Dudley vs. a matchup competent opponent is really something else entirely.
Having said that, Ultra should be better overall for Dudley. Delayed wakeup is kind of a godsend. Dudley doesn’t really depend all that much on getting damage off knockdowns (that’s not to say he doesn’t need knockdowns, of course he does), but getting knocked down as Dudley basically means you’ve lost the round half the time.
Not to mention all the buffs he’s getting. Though they seem minor I believe in the context of the system changes in Ultra, I think it’ll be the tipping point where we see Dudley becoming a true solid mid-tier choice.
I think the biggest factor is his strict timing, a common way to open your opponent up is to catch them standing with either fmk or crlp into cr.lk, you have to not only hit confirm off of that one cr lk into st hk, but it’s also a 1 frame link. Meanwhile, cammy has a daddy combo that’s a 2 frame link, go figure. I’ve seen so many punted matches because of missing out on the timing of cr.lk into st hk, there are a lot of other situational nuances. It’s hard for him to get in and beat lows, and once he is in he needs strict reactions + execution which usually amounts to having to invest more effort than the opponent.
Execution difficulty has no actual bearing on theorizing character strength, only the perception of the character’s strength so you may have a point.
Execution difficulty still has a significant impact, smug punted a few matches against bee and dieminion after dropping his 1 frame links (cr lk st hk) in winter brawl. So theoretical or not, the stricter demand for dudley’s execution in general is a big reason why dudley players are losing rounds when they shouldn’t be. The difference between 1f and 2f is huge
For example, now that cammy’s Cr HP is only +6 on hit (instead of 7), you’re going to see that combo get dropped a lot more which equates to big punishes which equates to a higher loss rate. Execution difficulty is a very important factor to consider, even zeus said that vega’s cr lp combos being 2 frame links as opposed to 1f links made him miles better. Now that cammy’s daddy combo requires tighter execution, it’s going to be huge, you can quote me on that. Dudley’s cr mp supposedly will come out in 4f instead of 5f in ultra, imagine how much impact it would have if every punish combo is fk mk, cr mp, st k due to how much easier it is to execute.
Not only does execution difficulty apply to dudley’s combo timing, but it’s just easier for dudley to make an execution error in general, if you wanted that kidney/stomach blow but your split second error results in that unsafe mgb or duck then you’re screwed. There aren’t any shortcuts similar to how ryu players start their cr mk into fireball with down + back, the only way around this is to have complete control over the micro movement that makes the difference between a duck and a kidney blow, requiring more mental energy and opening up more opportunities for game-changing mistakes.