Why don't people believe Sagat players?

I always argue with people that the 3 main shotos(Ken, Ryu, Akuma) all beat Sagat. They for the most part believe that Akuma beats Sagat, but so many of them think Sagat vs Ryu/Ken is 5-5. Especially Ryu and Ken mains…

How the heck(fuck) can the match up be 5-5? Ryu and Ken have far better normals than Sagat(although his are fine overall), and they can blow Sagat up in the footsie game without Sagat’s st.lk. They do more damage than him, and they get far more consistent damage than Sagat. They have 101 ways around his FB zoning, and FB’s are generally ASS in this version of the game, even players like Daigo think so and he’s the FB king.

However, what sets the match the furthest apart from being 5-5 is the safe jumps. How many characters in the caste can Safe jump Sagat at will? Now I’m not complaining that, because Sagat has an invincible reversal so cheers…BUT it’s just useless against the Shoto’s. Ryu and Ken have safe jump set ups on Sagat from sweeps, dps, throws, trades, juggles etc. That makes the match up the furthest thing from fair IMHO. Safe jumps in this game are so OP because not only are they true 50/50’s(sometimes 66/33’s with OS’) they lead to another 50/50 that if guessed wrong sets you up again… All that damage adds up, because both Ryu and Ken hit harder than Sagat in the grand scheme of things.

I wish players could be like Michael Tan, and just admit that the Shoto’s butt rape sagat. He believes Ken Sagat is 7-3 at the highest level lol.

5-5 shoots self in the face

And no true block string also blows

He’s just an ass character in general. It’s not just those 3, there are plenty others that people say are 5-5 but just don’t make any sense. I go in highs and lows. Sometimes I like him , other times I don’t know why I bother.

Even playing an bad Adon player can be taxing since there’s no fall back easy mode once people can get round your zoning. It’s in moments like those…I go back to Fei Long!

Even If you made his walk speed up around ken level he would be much more usable.

People are still a bit butthurt from vanilla. Also they see one Bonchan video of him beating Michael Tan and claim to the skies that Sagat beats shotos all the time since as long as you win in fireballs your supposedly supposed to win overall. The fact is Sagat is hard, and requires a lot more dedication and understanding of spacing/anti-air knowledge than a lot of the other cast members in general; just to be able to “play” the game. In general I find Sagat just really isn’t scary anymore, and so unless you scare people with your higher level of fundamentals/spacing…your kinda screwed. I digress though, I play Sagat just because he’s a king.

Cause our dp’s dont hit for 180 no more without using 1 bar which is so not needed for having the tu fadc option to escape from 80% of the cast’s vortex.


ryu is 5-5 ken is hard 6-4 close to 7-3 imo. ryu has better normals but sagat has better fireballs and can jump from further away. Sagat vs ryu is a fair match its just they both have different strengths. just my 2 cents.

I usually don’t necro a thread but since there isn’t much activity around here…

I completely agree with you OP, I literally had this exact thought the other day. I really think it all comes down to walk speed. They have more options than you at any given moment because of it. From outside of jump range they can match your projectile, walk up, & occasionally air tatsu while you can only throw projectiles. Way more options after knockdown since they get to consistently mix-up because of tatsu. Not even gonna talk about the mid range game.

TBF I think Michael Tan said it was 7-3 in AE when Ken had more reliable sweep combos.

lulz @ butthurt from vanilla. Frankly this game is tailored for the KD vortex which makes Sagat mains gluttons for punishment.

It’s human nature to convince others that you’re playing with a handicap, bad matchup or whatever. But it’s also a real weakness, not being able to accept loss responsibility. Char selection screen is the beginning of the match.

So, if you consciously make an inferior choice, you’re already a loser. I know Sagat has bad matchups, I select him because of his strengths, his gameplan fits my style so I think it’s the right choice for me.

I’ve always considered dedicated low-tier players as either style-focused players (no problem with this) or mentally weak. It’s a psychological win/win: if they win, they beat you, if they lose, their character sucks.

Don’t think too much about people’s opinion, play your char to win or change it.

Imo the shotos all rape sagat. Most shoto mains just hate on sagat cuz he can rape them in fb wars and cuz he was a bit op’d in vanilla.But for the most part, all of the shotos have better normals than sagat and can give him hell once they get past his zoning.But what makes the matchup is when they go against skilled sagats,that have excellent zoning and solid defense and footsies. Still prefer sagat over any shoto on any given day.

Lol look at when ryan hart played chris g in ceo straight massacre