The “If you can’t beat it, ban it” thing was in reference to the guy who said flat out, “If Giants are in the tournament, I won’t play.” He was calling for a ban and they catered to that mentality. Whether or not the organizers felt that way, they catered to a mentality that degrades the game and the scene as a whole. Now it is possible that the dude who refused to play against Giants was concerned with the speed and structure and “fun” of the game when he said that, but I doubt it.
Of the whopping 10 matches I got to play of TvC at Evo, I lost a few pretty badly, won some pretty decisively, and scraped by closely on the rest… just like any other team.
I don’t really care about Giants. TvC is in my junk drawer along with my Wii and my WiiStick until I get around to selling it on eBay. But these issues aren’t going away. These same conversations are going to happen every single time a title is released. People will complain and bicker about new mechanics, or old mechanics, or new characters, or old characters, and they will use it as a means of excluding and marginalizing players all in the name of love for the game, while they rebuild rules to their own tastes and personal preferences, dismantling the game they “love.”
No, no, no. I wasn’t singling you out in particular. It’s just that IMO the discussion was getting sidetracked into whether or not a character was “fun” which wasn’t the point.
And yes, Petshop was soft-banned in Japan, emphasis on “soft” in other words, had there been another situation similar to the old USA vs. Japan invitational where you had one side that soft-banned and another that didn’t, then picking Petshop in said hypothetical invitational would have been fine.
No character should be banned, hard or soft because they make the game boring. WTF kind of logic is that.
I see Guile and Sim in super, they’re super lame, fighting them is boring as fuck, but they’re not banned. As long as they don’t shut down the whole cast for free and there is an answer to them, no matter how boring, they don’t warrant a ban.
Hey guys. I ran the tournament so let me explain my thought process on this.
The community is small as hell. People threatened to drop out if Giants were in, so I made a call. I’d rather have a 10 person tourney than like a 6 person tourney or some shit. The call wasn’t made based on giants being broken, or even on them not being fun, I just wanted to be able to run a real tournament. How good/fun giants are to play against is unrelated to why that call was made.
If Yoshi had shown up though, I would have banned them because they’re broken. ;-D
Coming from a tierwhore… Haha, just kidding bro. This man here speaks the truth people, no shit.
I *usually *don’t play top tiers but the whole “if you can’t beat it, ban it” is dumb as hell. People need to deal with it… Except, well, if they are simply not manageable (Akuma on ST for instance, he can’t be stunned and stuff.)
Boring is extremely subjective. The guy playing as the giant could very well have fun, what are you gonna do with this? Because 2 people out of 3 thinks it’s boring, they’re just going to ban them? There’s seriously no logic to this, honestly. Banning a character is not based on whether they are fun n’ shit, it’s about whether they beat the cast for free or not. There is absolutely no problem in having boring characters. Guile is extremely boring to watch but I found myself enjoying playing as him on all 3 SFIV iterations, where is that fine line between ban-worthy and not ban-worthy? You’re basing your claims off of a very flawed reasoning, honestly. For everything, there will be people that like it no matter how you look at it.
Keep in mind you just argued with a guy who said in his post that he doesn’t agree with them being banned about why banning them is a bad idea based off “boringness”
Guile is boring to the viewer because he’s highly defensive. To the people playing however, it’s exciting. One has to keep you out, you have to get in. Obviously the people playing won’t give a shit if it’s boring to the viewer.
Giants are boring to the viewer because they’re slow in a game full of crazy fast bastardry. Unfortunately they’re boring to half the people playing (the giants opponent). Three quarters of the people involved are bored and bothered by it, so it is a problem.
Again, I don’t agree with them being banned because of it, and I don’t support it either, but I entirely understand the reasoning. That’s it.
I hope yall werent the same people booing during Soul Calibur 4 two years ago then.
Hilde quite honestly isnt THAT good, she has the ability to full screen ring you out. Back in the day I was salty, then I tried her out and realized she is NOTHING without the ability to instill fear in the opponent from anywhere on the screen. In fact, she has extremely bad lows and shes very linear.
And yet each time she launched Cassandra for MAKING A MISTAKE he paid the ultimate price. Even if Hilde had taken a beating the entire round, Cassandra made a foolish mistake and paid the price with a ring out. Why was everyone so salty?
I’m not a fan of booing anyone at competitive events, tbh. I especially think that it’s extremely unfair to boo the opponents of Noah (kid prodigy) at Evo on the big screen. Sure, cheer for the kid when you win, but booing the other dude if he gets a combo? Screw that, those guys didn’t ask to play against the kid, and nobody wants to be in that situation.
The ban of giants was initiated by RoyalFlush after I took SoCal Regionals 2010. This is not due to salt, but rather he feels the giants are a prime suspect of TvC not garnering any respect. I am inclined to agree. I get bored watching my own matches sometimes.
As Justin Wong interestingly said to me after I took 1st, “Dude you have like the lamest expression when you play the game.” I pretty much look retarded as hell when playing. Holding my Classic Controller Pro that I got from pre-ordering Monster Hunter Tri, while I hurrdurrr roll as PTX-40a. I look at my face sometimes and I wonder if people think I have down syndrome.
Giants on an intricate level have some interesting mind games though, and as Kbeast said to me “It’s like playing SSF4.” This is hard to realize by watching the match. Harder to realize if you don’t even play TvC.
You cannot justify the ban on Giants on a gameplay perspective in my opinion. They are not overpowered, nor are they close to that. However, if the ban of giants will be for the best of the game, so be it.
I’ll trump all of your asses anyways with my Frank West and Alex team. BRING IT BITCHES jfkdlas;ffkdl;asjfkadsl;
If the scene supposedly died because of one character, when say 3S survived even with Yun/Chun or MvC2 with Sent (or 2I Sean/Ibuki), then that scene deserves to die for being freaking weak IMO.
That’s easy to say when you’re not the one competing or trying to get people to come to a tournament.
Where’s all these MVC2 tournaments at? You saw a few people keep the game going for quite some time and anyone who couldn’t compete were gone. That’s not thriving.
As for Hilde, she’s broken, but she didn’t kill the game. SC4 is still going and will be until SC5 drops next year.
That’s the problem of the players. If the community is dying because of one or two characters who aren’t even broken, then the community needs to go out and reevaluate itself.
Last I checked, we didn’t go and say “hey, why don’t we ban Yun and Chun/Mags, Storm, Sent, Cable so we’d get more people into 3rd Strike/MvC2.”
We had MvC2 tournaments right up until MvC3 launched. Heck, without MvC3, we’d be having MvC2 tournaments for another 10 years.
Then why are you complaining? The topic is all about unnecessary bans simply because the characters supposedly kill the community (which is bullshit).
I’ll be honest, I’ve actually found giants to be a pretty interesting spin on the usual Vs. series formula. It’s kind of an interesting gimmick, though as stated, the matches with them can get boring at times. I certainly don’t think banning them was the right option, though. Giants are a native part of TvC, and as such it’s something you agree to deal with when you decide to play the game. I agree that it harkens back to the Smash community in that they’re turning the game into something it isn’t.
I actually kind of enjoy watching giant matches, because as a TvC player I know it must be a frustrating experience, and it has to take some sort of mental toughness to play a slow character while Zero flies around sniping at you with his buster.
Listening to what the viewer want in the tournament scene is a terrible idea. Viewer mindlessly whine about something they aren’t apart of. They shouldn’t be want dicates the scene, nobody has to listen to them. You can consider their opinion, but you shouldn’t have to listen to speculation. You shouldn’t ban Sagat/Akuma in Vanilla for being too good. You shouldn’t do it Guile/Sim because they are defensive. You shouldn’t do it to Yun/Yang because they win a lot.
I highly suggest that Tournament Organizers/Developer ignore speculation UNLESS it’s from the tournament players. If you are making tournaments for views, you would have to ban top/high tiers. Stream Monsters don’t like winning to the best of your ability.
Banning a overpower character is a hard call, and Super Turbo Akuma is the only character that didn’t create massive community backlash. Any other attempt to banning a overpowered character have destroy communities in modern age. Banning is not the answer anymore, we can nerf shit with patches/new editions. Let’s just hope that more communities don’t ban characters rather than just breaking them. Showing off how broken the character is will force the developer to take action and fix those problems.
The only time a character should be banned is that they are exclusive console characters. For instance banning Kratos in MK9 is an acceptable. Or Link on the Gamecube in Soul calibur 2.
