Well no. If a tier list isnt right it isnt right.
Low tier has difficult matchups, not impossible matchup.
You don’t even know his name lmao it’s mightymar. And yeah you should quit talking about a game you know nothing about.
Why do people say “X player doesn’t count, he is an anomaly, he put in TOO MUCH WORK on X character.” I don’t get why people think they are ENTITLED to high level play in every game with every character. Players who win in vampire savior in japan have been playing longer than you’ve been registered to the site, regardless of top or bottom tier. This goes for super turbo, 3rd strike, and every other hard game.
Again, low tier is something that varies from game to game
There is huge difference between a low tier on MVC2 and a low tier on GGXXAC+R, it all depends on how compressed are the tier list on the game,
Also, low tier characters can still have one or two favorable matchups while being trash at other, it is not so uncommon to happen.
Super Turbo is imbalanced and it’s a great game, Sirlin tried to “fix” it with HDR and look how that turned out. There are good games that are balanced though, it’s not mutually exclusive. I think all the patching needs to stop because it doesn’t allow the game to develop.
This is true, though I wasn’t saying Kaji doesn’t count or that he puts in “too much work” into playing the game, whatever that means. I meant that he’s an exceptional Lilith because he plays very creatively and precisely, and his many victories tend to skew peoples’ perception of how characters are balanced in the game. Regardless of how long the Japanese players have been playing the game, you don’t see any of the other Liliths consistently placing as high as he does in recent tournaments. Perhaps they have not been playing as long as Kaji has, or do not have the same experience that he does? This I do not know.
Ugh, please don’t post that garbage from Penny Arcade as proof of anything.
They don’t know what they’re talking about and the guy’s voice makes me want to punch him in the nose.
my point was what if tier charts were 100% accurate, mid and low tiers shouldn’t win. That means someone like Snakes eyes shouldnt be winning with Geif. After looking at tier charts for games like ST and VS, or even VF people still win with low and mid tiers. Unlike really un-balanced were only top tiers win.
No.
Even if a tier chart were 100% accurate, low tiers can still win because tiers charts are based on matchups and even low tier characters can have good matchups in their favor. Also, even in a bad matchup, there’s still a small chance that a low tier can win at least one or two games.
There is no such thing as character A beats character B. What we do have is character A will beat character B x number of times out of ten.
I feel like this is relevant at the moment: http://shoryuken.com/2013/09/03/domination-101-prelude-to-a-diss-some-preliminary-remarks-on-balance/
I think SF could use some tips from Tekken about balancing a game out.
You guys have no idea what you’re talking about.
Here’s a video on the topic:
This thread is so mixed on this video, it’s either the best or worst video on the this subject ever.
I was just kidding, but I’ve seen it before as well as the power creep video and they have a couple of valid points.
Thing is, it’s fucking hard to sit through these videos cuz it’s fucking Mickey Mouse speaking.
Sakurai with one excuse after another for bad game design.
I mean this is a bad example. Being a major dota player for 10 years, there is a difference between balancing and plain out ridiculousness. Like HoN for example, everyone hated that game by the end because they made every hero rediculous. DotA, the heroes still have their utility and there is balance within that. So talking about making SF turn into HoN where every character is broken and therefore there is “balance” will only work for certain games…Like UMVC3 lol
Why does everyone and their mother insist on reposting this video.
Because it’s “funny”.
I especially like how the underlying idea of the balance rotation isn’t applicable to fighting games because (except skullgirls) the patch cycle is extremely long and the roster isn’t dota-sized.
What I don’t like is how it keeps everything up to the devs and doesn’t acknowledge that how these games are played is more often than not out of their hands. Emergent gameplay is one of the hallmarks of a great FG.
Balance can only truly be achieved if the game was purely Ryu vs Ryu (or Zangief vs Zangief whatever) but for obvious reasons most people don’t want that. A second way that is close would be to build a game where all the characters play very similar to each other (Tekken) with slight variances (combos) so that every character truly has a chance (even though tiers still exist). This creates a game that is faking variety when it is actually secretly emulating that Ryu vs Ryu scenario and ends up boring for a lot of people especially when the basic mind games being played out is no where near as deep and intricate as Street Fighter or other quality fighting games. A third way and the current system that Street Fighter 4 seems to be headed towards (especially once the Vortex is eliminated/toned down) is to have a cast of highly varied characters with ever compressing tiers that will eventually result in a game that is HIGHLY match-up based. We can see this trend over time in the sheer variety of winners we get nowadays in tournaments compared to vanilla sf4 or ST/3S for instance. In the early days of Vanilla Justin Wong was UNBEATABLE in the U.S. Daigo was basically unbeatable worldwide. ST, Alpha 2/3, had a couple of very well known names (Choi, Valle, etc) that would very rarely lose.
What we’re heading towards is a game that is going to have a different winner every tournament which is going to come down to the luck of the brackets. This is a very hard problem to avoid when you have so many viable characters. Daigo can get randomed out at any given moment against any high skilled Akuma, Cammy, Viper, Seth, Guile, Rose, and even Blanka. As can any character against their bad match ups. The only way to avoid this would be to make a group of top tiers in the game that don’t have any real bad match-ups such as Akuma, Ryu, Sagat in Vanilla Sf4(and Rufus to a degree). Again this shows that the only true way to balance would be to have identical or somewhat similar (ryu, Akuma, Sagat) characters as the strongest. Theoretically the only way I see that we could have a top player with the current system that can’t be randomed out would be if he had mastered (and I mean truly mastered) a second character to cover his bad match ups (in best out of three). This is assuming the opponent hasn’t done the same thing as well which makes things even more complicated.
Unless any of these things happen (a group of top tier characters is created with no bad match ups or a player masters two characters that balance each other out perfectly) I see more and more every tournaments having a random winner out of the top 10-20 players around.