Why can't more devs make fighting games with good online?

you only get out what you put in as long as we’re talking GGPO net code. Anything under GGPO net code and there is basically no sense to play online. If that is what you do online, that is what you will learn.

think about what you said though. It sounds like you care so much about winning that you’re not using it as a tool to become better. You can take lumps and actually try to play properly and learn what is going on. Online is supposed to be a training ground for your offline game. Not improve your online game so you can rack up wins will only to fuck you up offline.

when I played on GGPO frequently, it was always with the aim to get better rather than abuse lag for cheap wins. Those lessons I learned on there like that have now transitioned into other parts of my main games quite nicely.

sure you’ll lose playing like this sometimes by not abusing lag tricks but you’re playing online anyway. Its not like your win is going to be 100% legit. While some connections on GGPO or GGPO like net code can be VERY VERY VERY good, its still online and that creates tiny variables of uncertainty for both players and those variables are not there offline.

About that post patch Skullgirls GGPO tweak

It’s amazing.

What does SCV do? That game just… works.

I don’t know what the hell they did exactly but the netcode is now super amazing. I played someone with 175 ping recently and I didn’t notice any lag, I am also hearing about UK people getting good connections with USA people.

Every other netcode is just trash compared to GGPO, I have a hard time playing online with anything else.

GGPO drops inputs on bad connections; everything has a tradeoff. try parrying jump ins or dive kicks on a bad connection in 3S:OE. I think it’s probably the best set of tradeoffs available, but a bad connection is still a bad connection no matter what netcode you are using.

re: playing new games on old CRTs. Persona 4 Arena. can’t read most of the text there, and I swear a good chunk of the screen gets chopped off on my end. more than overscan usually does.

Increased buffer window and input lag.

Could swear I replied to this.

3D fighters have an advantage because most moves (especially in SC) have -what- 10 frame startup on average? So they hide lag a lot better then a 2D fighter with 1 frame links.

The devs on both sides of the Atlantic (except for SNKP) are starting to figure out that rollback is preferred and experimenting with what works and what doesn’t work. I’ve heard totally mixed opinions on Strekken’s netcode but from what I understand TT2, SC5, DOA5, MVC Origin and Skullgirls (I didn’t play it enough) have superior netcode. Not bad considering what the standard was 4 years ago.

As the internet in the U.S. becomes more and more like Asia and Europe with 700 mbs download and upload thanks to Google it’s easy to foretell that online tournaments will be taken as totally legit and hopefully bullshit free.

probably been covered some, in essence fighters aren’t suited to online play for a number of reasons, but there are things that could be built for online without degrading the game experience.

Essentially you would need to de-emphasize tight input timings and (although it overlaps) allow fairly wide input buffers. Those are the things that get in the way of netplay.

without systemic changes along those lines, rollback isn’t a magic fix.

SFxTekken’s netcode was legit before the patch. Only problem was idiots complaining about the sound glitches or not understanding what rollbacks were. Post patch, it’s become meh since the solution seemed to be to add more fixed delay so accomodate whatever it is they did to fix the sound.

Those “idiots” are customers who are correct in believing that functional sound is not an extra, but is part of a minimum feature set that every game requires.

The same “idiots” also complained about rollbacks and were suggesting that Capcom should use SFIV netcode for future fighting games.

So if you wanted the sound to work, you also wanted the SFIV networking framework? What other terrible opinions do these obviously horrible people hold? Did they also like New Coke?

Final Showdown on the original VF5 have awesome online play. The quality of the opponents is another story though…

VO:OT also has great online.

only an “idiot” would want the sound to be right over the inputs being better. Which is the entire argument. Sound is like what, 10% maybe less for sfxt and playing with the right inputs is easily 90% or more. I routinely play w\o sound in tournaments and it doesn’t really affect me since I won the last 2\3 tournaments I played in. While I was banned I’ve been in the tourney scene playing with the best people I can find and getting opinions on net code while I was @ it. No tourney player wants MORE input lag and if you get out into the scene, you’d hear the same thing.

did capcom fuck up on the sound? yup, they sure as fuck did and they acknowledged it too but they gave us a choice for the fix. Since sound is such a small part of the ENTIRE game, it should have been overlooked easily in favor of a getting a better game online. Fighting games are about fighting, not listening to the game. You could be 100% deaf as a fighting game player and be a top player, thats how little sound matters

and lol @ xes saying roll back isn’t a magic fix, some things never change apparently.

Saying there is a magic fix?

I hate to be the one to tell you, but magic ain’t real.

people with 4 year degrees seem to think otherwise like mike z\ponder whom ACTUALLY make games online and guess what, they work better online than anything capcom
amco\sega has done by themselves. Seems like a magic fix to me and its so fucking magical that capcom
amco\sega have started to experiment with the roll back concept themselves.

you’re so fucking delusional, its fucking sad @ this point. You’re arguing with people who went to college, got technical degrees and are now being paid money to work on video games that are awesome online. Yet, you still sit here and continue to say it doesn’t work. What kind of fucked up delusional world do you live in? if it never worked online, companies wouldn’t start switching over to that style for fighters you realize that right? well, I guess not because that makes too much sense. You’re arguing for the sake of being right rather than looking @ the pieces and understanding which is better.

that shoryuken.com I’m a super scrub degree though is really working for you though. Time and time again you prove how useful you are to the community with your nonsensical logic

if you have a technical rebuttal, I’m all ears. If you have no technical rebuttal, kindly STFU. Your retarded non educated opinion is qualitative. Some of us want to deal with facts.

So mad.

Rollback isn’t a cure all to the problem of lag - never has been, just look up Face Stabs in Team Fortress 2- BUT (Emphasis!) it depends on the developer and how they use it. Iron Galaxy released 3SOE and the online was actually a little worse than GGPO online. Then they released MVC Origin and it was as good if not a little better than GGPO online

So roll back is a solution, but it all depends on how it’s used and how the game is designed.

yes, roll back is the cure because no matter how good you make input delay, its constantly ass. No technical programmer could ever make input delay good online because of how it operates. There are only 2 options to choose from and input delay is just so bad that the best option for us has been defaulted into the only remaining option, roll back…

saying that roll back has to be done right is fucking obvious…

if a bad developer tries to use roll back, they could easily fuck it up. Which is why 3s oe is meh online but skullgirls is god like. Its not that roll back is bad, its the developers fucking that up and that should not have a reflection on roll back itself

to this day, I have yet to play a fighter online that uses input delay and have it be good. therefore roll back is the answer. being done properly is a different story entirely because if you give a shit developer a game, they will fuck up the input delay net code just as bad as they fuck up the roll back and guess what, the roll back version would stilllll be better even though it was done by a bad company

Someone drank Four Loko this morning.

with a shit load of common sense mixed with it