You make a lot of good points. Ryu most likely defeated Bison or was present when Akuma murdered Bison w/ the Raging Demon. I can understand why Tiamat thinks Guile defeated Bison and won the tournament, but Capcom has always implied that Ryu’s the main character of the SF2 series. Like you said, it seems highly unlikely that they would have someone else win. I agree with you when u say that there might be some truth to what happened in the SF2 comic and anime. Bison brainwashing Ken and Chun Li vs. Vega are both recurring themes in the SF2 Universe. Plus, Ryu fighting Dhalsim is probably canon.
IMO, the four main characters in SF2 (listed from most important to least important):
Ryu
Chun Li
Guile
Ken
Cammy fits somewhere in there, but I didn’t know where to put her.
Ah, but in that Comic Ken defeated Sagat, AKA Ken owns Sagat. I’m sure that doesn’t officially happen otherwise Sagat would have a rivalry with Ken too.
Course Sagat’s storyline has been changed a lot since then. Let’s see what Studio Udon does with the SF2 Tourney.
Now that I think about it, it’s also kind of interesting in both that Manga done by Masaomi Kanzaki and the SF2 Animated Movie, the Ryu/Sagat rematch doesn’t take place, and it officially doesn’t happen in the canon storyline either.
There is the idea that Bison uses the psycho drive to make his men more powerful. Like Shadow who was originally Charlie, Ken may have been made more powerful and hence able to beat Sagat. Sagat may have lost due to Ken being dishonorable or Sagat may have just let the Ken thing go knowing that he was under Bisons powers.
You are also right about Sagats storyline being changed alot. He changed from being an evil righthand man of Bisons, to being an fighter with honor trying to gain his honor. Maybe Sagat losing to Ken is a good reason for why he didn’t pursue Ryu in the SF3 tourny, who knows. The possiblilties are all there and some ideas even point to Ken fighting Sagat.
Another thing when trying to decide who faught who I looked at the special ending if you beat the game without loosing. I think these fights are supposed to be cannon IMO as they are always the same ones and hence are the only indication we have about the fights. The following is suggested.
Guile fights E.Honda in Balrogs stage…
My take: Guile fights Honda in early rounds, he makes it to Balrog and beats him.
Chun-li fights Blanka in Vegas stage…
My take: Chun-li fights Blanka in early rounds (common theme inc. in box art), she makes it to Vega and beats him (common theme)
Dhalsim fights Zangief in Sagats stage…
My take: Good fight as it compares physical stength to mental strength. Dhalsim makes second round but loses to Ryu.
Ryu fights Ken in Bisons stage…
My take: Ryu and Ken make it to semi-finals. Ken is brain-washed but snaps out of it. Ryu wins and goes on to fight Bison.
This may not seem as much but it is the closest thing we have to go on who faught who. The fact that these fighters are randomly chosen after beating the game (yet the moves they use are), suggest that Capcom wanted to show these particular fights.
Chun-Li fighting Blanka on Balrog’s Stage is a good idea, but my way of thinking leans towards the person fighting a character on their stage, so I’d rather believe Blanka fought Balrog and lossed myself.
I think at this point it’s a bit redundant to have Ken brainwashed in SF2 when they have already revealed that officially now Ryu was brainwashed in SFZ3. I go with Ryu beating Ken myself.
So for the match ups, I see it like this.
Ryu - Defeats Fei Long and Dhalsim. He then beats Ken. He senses Gouki’s pressence and goes after him, missing his fight with Guile. When Guile leaves after his fight with Vega, Gouki kills Vega. Ryu and Gouki fight and Gouki gives Ryu another learning match not going all out.
Ken - Defeats T.Hawk. Looses to Ryu.
Chun-Li - Defeats Cammy while Balrog looks/AKA stalks Cammy and sees his beautiful Doll again. Cammy later asks Vega about her identity. Chun-Li defeats E.Honda. Fights Balrog and wins but due to her injuries does not continue.
Blanka - Wanting to get props in Shadowloo like the Manga, not to be evil but just to belong to something he attacks Balrog even though he doesn’t have enough wins to be ranked up for this fight. The Cage comes down and scares him, he looses.
Guile - Beats Deejay(Brainwashed Studio Udon style to give him a story!), beats Zangief and Mike Bison. With Balrog defeated, Ryu dropped out and Chun-Li injured, he fights Sagat who sees Guile is full of revenge like Sagat used to be when he fought Adon, tells Guile revenge is not the way and walks off causing a forfeit. Guile faces Vega and wins. His ending happens. And Ryu vs. Gouki takes over from here.
I worked it all out a while ago. Some of the fights are just there to make sence. The rest are verified. I should be working for my 2nd year uni finals but I’m an idiot, it 's only a degree at Cambridge after all
Regarding the picture. Open it up or you will not understand the rest of this post.
I have put some dots between people that are fighing to mean the following:
No Dot - No justification for fight - just fits in…
Yellow dot - Little/no justification but good choice…
Blue dot - Nothing official but likely to happen…
Single Red Dot - Game suggests it happened…
Double Red dot - Game suggests it happened AND cover art…
Reasons for some fights:
Ryu fights no one first round - If you take Bison out of the SF2 and have him only at the end, then there are odd number of player. I think Ryu got to skip 1st round because he won SF1.
Cammy fights Vega - They must have a past. This would help her understand her past more as Vega played a part in it. I think Cammy’s cheek was scarred by Vega so more to play on there.
Balrog fighs T.Hawk - T.Hawk is trying to kill Bison so Bison probibally told Balrog to beat him to stop him from coming near Bison and snooping around etc. Just a thought.
Fei-Long fights Ken - Just fits, don’t ask why. Maybe Fei-Long came to fight Ryu but got Ken instead. Similar for Ken and Sagat. As well as this, the other 3 pairs match (e.g. Ryu Vs Dhalsim, Guile Vs Balrog, Chun-li Vs Vega - leaving only Ken and Sagat - perfect)
The Semi-Finals and finals are contestable but I think I have them right. It makes more sence this way to me. Udon, I have considered much in putting this together so I hope you use as many (if not all) of these matches as possible as it would give a real tournament battle for the readers to follow.
What does everyone think about my matches. Any comments/problems?
Personally, I think that maybe Sagat came in 3rd place and M. Bison came in 2nd. Those 2 are always standing there in all versions of Ryu’s SF2 ending. I also saw that in an official drawing of a scene in Dhalsim’s SF2 ending. I think there might be some truth to it. However, M. Bison didn’t live long enough to attend/see the award ceremony and Sagat and Ryu never had had their rematch.
QUOTE]*Originally posted by Master Coco *
**I remember back in the day, some magazines said Ryu won, I know not reliable and still it hasnt been mentioned who won I think it’s Ryu, but according to the plot guide, most likely it’s Guile.
I’m pretty sure Bison sent Ryu an invitation, he was after him all through Alpha and could still do with a better body. He was also after him in the SF2 anime, which WAS canon, so I’m pretty sure he invited him. Also Ryu could have beat Bison, then left. While Guile and Bison unofficially fought and Guile defeated a weakened Bison. His family shows up and Guile leaves him alive.
Chun Li probably witnessed the fight, and maybe she killed Bison after Guile left him alive. It’s also pretty certain that Chun Li destroyed Shadowlaw/loo after the tournament as well.
That’s my take on it all. **
[/quote]
Street Fighter comics, movies, cartoons, and any other source besides directly from CAPCOM is not considered official information.
You have it mixed up. The Street Fighter 2: animated movie is not considered official information regarding the street fighters. Therefore, most stuff you’ve seen in the movie never officialy happened. Ryu never fought Bison in Street Fighter 2. It was Guile. Guile also successfully defeated Bison during the tournament.
But you’re right about Chunli destroying Shodowloo. In her Street Fighter 2 revival ending, Chunli states that she destroyed Shaowloo herself. Even in Street Fighter 3: third strike, Urien specifically said that Chunli was the one who destroyed “The Organization”, referring to Shadowloo.
Bison never invited Ryu to the tournament in the first place. Bison only invited those who opposed Shadowloo during Street Fighter alpha 2 and 3, Meaning Guile, Chunli, and probaly Dhalsim.
Ryu only heard of the tournament and decided to test his skills by entering.
The fight with Bison and Guile WAS official. The fight with Ryu and Bison was not.
Ryu never defeated Bison during Street Fighter 2. Bison never even invited Ryu to the tournament in the first place. Bison only invited those who opposed Shadowloo during Street Fighter alpha 2 and 3. Since Ryu never opposed Shadowloo of any sort, Bison never bothered with him. Bison only started the 2nd street fighter tournament to cast revenge on his enemies.
Ken never was brainwashed. that’s just something Capcom USA made up. And you do know how capcom USA mixes up original storylines for street fighters with false information. It was ryu who truly was brainwashed. Ken never got brainwashed at all. You probaly saw Ken brainwashed in SFA3 as well, but that does’nt prove anything. Capcom of japan simply took the idea from the movie to add in thier game. The brainwashing of Ken still never happened.
Guile IS the main character of SF2, not ryu. Guile was the one who officialy defeated Bison during street fighter 2. In street Fighter 2 revival, Guile’s ending was the only ending that revolved around beating bison. Ryu Never had anything to do with shadowloo during street fighter 2.
Once again, Ken was never brainwashed. that was only something Capcom of USA made up for the Street Fighter 2: animated movie. Ryu was th one who truly was brainwashed.
The main reason Sagat changed from shadowloo to an honorable warrior was because he fought Dan in street Fighter alpha 2.
During Street Fighter alpha 2, Dan came up to Sagat vowing revenge for his father’s death. What Sagat saw in Dan’s eyes reminded him of how himself was like when he used to be full of hatred, and assumed which the reason he lost to Ryu. Sagat threw the match and let Dan win. Ever since then, Sagat realized that the power of hatred was limited.
part of Street Fighter alpha 3 begins by Bison tracking down ryu so he can be bison’s next body. Bison eventually finds ryu, and brainwashed him, thus, making him “Psycho Ryu”. Around that time, Ken, Sakura, and Sagat came to help ryu free himself of Bison’s control. Sagat fought Psycho Ryu, meanwhile Ken and Sakura slows Bison down from getting to Ryu. Sagat beats Psycho Ryu, and due to the combined efforts of Ken, Sakura, and Sagat, Ryu overcame Bison’s Brainwashing and managed to drive Bison away.
During Street Fighter 2, Guile wanted revege on Bison for Charlie’s death. So Guile entered the tournament to fight him, and won. Before guile can finish him off, his family came to stop him and said that killing bison won’t bring Charlie back. Guile then agrees to live a normal happy life with his family.
I like your theory on Guile winning SF2; don’t know about the Bison brainwashing Ryu and Sagat losing to Dan part though. However, what would Ryu’s reason be for coming back to the Street Fighter III tournament?
First off, what I say are’nt theories, They are facts from CAPCOM.
But that is’nt important, so mving on…
It’s easy telling why ryu entered the Street Fighter 3 tournament.
To test his skills. Ryu lives for fighting, and fighting only. Ryu fights to search for the answer to "What is a true warrior?"
It’s quite obvious that Ryu enters the 3rd tournament just for the fight.
That’s why you see ryu in every street fighter game. He’s always trying to hone his skills.Bison only brainwashed ryu becauae Bison saw great amounts of potential in him, probaly when ryu was fighting sagat.
If you played SFA3 at all, you’d probaly noticed Juni’s win quotes.
When Juni defeats a character, Juni win quotes states the potential level of that character that she has beaten.
According to Juni’s officail readings, Ryu has a potential level of 125500. A level of 125500 is the highest potential level in the whole game. Meaning that if ryu reached his potential, Ryu would seriously own everybody in the whole game. Ken has a potential level of 7500 and a power level of 8500. This means that Ken is already the strongest he can get in SFA3, and can’t get any stronger for the time being.
Bison had an interest in Ryu and not Ken for obvious reasons. Ryu is stronger than Ken, and had great potential. Why would Bison want to control Ken when Even Charlie had more potential than Ken during the time?
Capcom have never released a statement that even remotely suggested that as far as I remember. With all due respect to Guile, I don’t think that Capcoms mascot lost the torny that made Street Fighter a big sucess. Tell me where you heard that from because it sounds like fanfic to me.
Again, I’ve never heard of Bisons ‘Guest List’. I believe Chun-li and Guile almost always say that they ‘tracked’ Bison to the SF2 tourny, not I got an invite to come here. It might not be official but not even the unofficial stuff says they got an invite let alone what is cannon.
I would be very interested to hear an official quote with an official source. The idea sounds ludicras to me.
Thats another new one. I thought it was to find great fighters and recruit them via brainwashing or otherwise.
If the latest installment of a game isn’t cannon for its storyline then what is :S Actually I agree that Ken wasn’t brainwashed but I sometimes have my doubts.
How about Cammy and Chun-li? Remember that Street Fighter is a Japnesse game. I know in the US all the top people are usually American and even in Street Fighter the Movie this was the case, but the reality is that Ryu from Osaka is the winner. Guile just goes on living after Bison is gone, similarly with Chun-li. It doesn’t imply he HAD to beat Bison. It doesn’t matter if Ryu had nothing to do with Shadowloo.
Agreed
I don’t remember this being in Alpha 3. How did Ken and Sakura slow down Bison? and I don’t think Sagat beat Ryu during then. From what I heard, Ryu went evil after Bison used his psycho powers on him, and beat up Sagat. Sagat took it as he knew Ryu was fighting crazy like. Ryu then challenged Ken in a very cocky way. Ken kept calm and beat Ryu. He literally knocked sence back into him and gave him a cut on his forehead. Thats when Ken gave him the red band to remind him about importance of fighting with honour (similar almost to #7 backup)
Well, you got that part right, after Bison is beaten, he is killed my Akuma…
Even though Capcom never said anything about who won the tournament, Capcom did state what happened during the tournament. Capcom’s Street Fighter revival was said by capcom to remedy and fix whatever wrong/mistaken official information reffered to Street Fighter 2 in the past. The endings in the game were also stated to be final and official.
Guile was the only one who defeated Bison in a one-on-one battle in the aftermath of Street Fighter 2.
Bison personaly invited everyone who opposed shadowloo in the past. Chunli was also invited but she entered the tournament on her own terms for her own reasons as well, like getting vengence for her father.
Guile was invited due to the fact that guile, chunli, and charlie caused the psycho drive to blow up, so Bison wants revenge.
In Street Fighter alpha 3, when Bison blew up. Guile and Chunli thought that Bison was done for, until he sended them invitations to the next street fighter tournament.
Ever since that, THEN they started to track Bison down, assuming that he was still alive.
It’s not an idea, It’s a known fact. And it does’nt matter whether you believe it or not, the important thing is that what I said is all facts.
Maybe you should stop paying attention to movies, and other stuff besides what capcom says.
SFA3 WAS official information in the Street Fighter saga. SFA1 was the one that you should disregard as offcial in formation.
Guile DID beat Bison. Everything you have seen in the movie is’nt official information. Cammy was one of the main characters in SFA3, not SF2. SF2 revolved around the fall of Shadowloo, which cammy and ryu had nothing to do with.
Agreed
You really need to start playing SFA3, and don’t pay attention to what you’ve heard.
This isn’t proof that he was the the one that beat Bison though. It’s just as easy to say that Ryu had to win the tourny as he walks away from 1st position. They are the same thing. To say Guile beats Bison is to say he won SF2. To say Ryu won SF2 is to say beat Bison. The only reason Ryus ending doesn’t focus on this is that he doesn’t give a shit about Bison, just like Guile doest care about winning SF2.
Basically - Winning SF2 = Beating Bison.
Guiles ending says he beat Bison which implies he won SF2
Ryus ending says he won SF2 which implies he beat Bison
They both rely on BOTH things being true as the ideas are equivical. This means only one could have done it. I say it’s Ryu because it’s obvious AND suggested in his ending. If it says he won SF2 it means he beat Bison.
It’s a good idea but I have till this day never heard it from anywhere other than from you. All I am asking is that if it is definately official then you should be able to say where you heard it from.
lol. If it’s not just an idea and is really a fact then you should have a point of reference. Also, I haven’t seen anyone else come out with the idea of invitations as cannon.
You missed my point. Not only is your stuff not backed up in official Street Fighter stuff as far as I can tell, it’s not even backed up in UNofficial Street Fighter stuff.
I never said it wasn’t, it was you that did. “Ken never got brainwashed at all. You probaly saw Ken brainwashed in SFA3 as well, but that does’nt prove anything.” Ring a bell??? :lol:
You missed my point again. Guile being the one to fight Bison was an American idea because Guiles from the US and they have to have a US hero. However, Capcom is a Japanesse franchise where Ryu is the company mascot. Regardless of who was trying to bring down Shadowloo, it is only Ryu that has the potential to bring Bison down and that is what it amounts to. Guile and Chun-li try bringing down Bison by external measures but Ryus the one that fights him and brings him down, even if just for the fight. Not that Chun-li and Guile are totally sidelined. They do their shit by fighting characters like Vega etc.
I already do. I think the point is that you need to determine the difference between facts and multipossible endings, not to mention new ideas. Guile fighting Bison in an ending is as conclusive as Ryu winning SF2 in an ending as both rely on it to be true and both are essentially the same thing.
Guile is NOT strong enough to defeat Bison. What more than likely happened is that guile did in fAct make it to Bison when Akuma came out and killed Bison. This caused Guile to be the winner by default.
Um, Nerd you’re totally wrong. First off I never said any of the things I mentioned (Ryu defeating Bison, brainwashed ken, etc) are fact. We’re just throwing around theories, dude. Second off, it’s not officially stated anywhere that Guile defeated Bison. Finally, Bison’s guest list isn’t even official. We’ve all read the plot guide, dude.
