The line between weird and stupid is quite blurry. I said weird because I personally like these charcters, but others calls Hakan stupid (juts check rebalance thread).
I personally find interesting characters that are designed with inherent flaws - that are really good at something, but lose badly at others. If everybody would be Ryu style “I’m good at anything”, then the game would be boring.
That’s why I always found pure grapplers very interesting, and I consider Dhalsim the most interesting zoner.
Dashpunch is much more faster and safer than Headbutt, so is the other way around. And SK also need proper spacing.
Anyway, this thread is more of a “let’s pick our favourite characters”, and since you picked Abel, I’m ok with it, hehe.
Honestly, I’d “accept” just about any top-tier as long as they don’t completely, utterly dominate the game. This is the list of characters whose playstyles I personally find interesting and would like to see enhanced/made viable enough for top-tier play (characters I would really like to see top-tier in bold):
Adon
C.Viper Dee Jay
El Fuerte
E.Ryu
Fei Long Gen
Gouken Guy
Ibuki Juri Ken Makoto Yang
I personally enjoy either well rounded characters or characters with plenty of tools such as fei, yang and Akuma. Of course certain characters have to use just a fraction of their tools to dominate certain matchups but that’s more of a balancing issue rather than something inherently wrong with the design of the character. Characters such as Rufus and Guile are examples of characters that lack a varied set of tools and are, IMO, boring to watch.
SF4 seems to be the kind of game where if you have tools for altering your jump arc, for ambiguous safe jump ins, or for up close frame traps then you have good tools for getting damage, and if not the tools don’t really matter. Is this what you mean when you say every character plays the same?
Hakan has a very outlandish character design, like Blanka or Dhalsim, even his style of playing is very different from the original SF character, which is dynamic and really depending, how the fight is going on. Good is, his character design gives the access to cheap stuff, I love it actually. Also some guys in this forum have an aversion against everything, which looks strong(teleport, air fireballs,…).
No doubt Cammy’s buttons are overall better now. However how do you think Capcom would buff Cody to be a top 5 character, like as strong as Cammy or Akuma or Fei now? He would have to get much stronger, and he would be changed. So how? If they strengthen his strengths, that means his frame traps get even stronger. I’m not taking the character as is; I’m theorizing what Capcom would do to greatly increase Cody’s power and make him a top dominant character.
By “every char plays the same” I mean that for half+ of the cast, the literal gameplan is “Downback, stick out some special buffered poke now and then, score a knockdown, safejump into mixup, if it succeeds → repeat, if it doesn’t → back to downback; p.s. AA jumpins that aren’t cammy or sakura”. If you can play a decent Ryu, you can also play a decent … 20 other characters. Yeah there are some rare movement quirks, and which poke(s) you stick out varies, but at their base, the utmost characters look the same.
I switched maingames to one with an 8 character roster and I very much so feel that I now have a more diverse range of options than I ever had in SF4.
Again why I want everyone to be dynamic and as different as possible. Why I want Oni air dash focused offense, why I want Evil Ryu Axe kicks to be a major part of his offense rather than something just to add to combos, why Elf should retain his playstyle and become even more zany and unpredictable, why you don’t nerf oiled Hakan, why you don’t nerf Viper burn kicks, why you give Dan’s fireball a purpose…like he can easily set up combos off of it or something, give Dhalsim a lightning fast yoga drill/mummy vortex etc. Everyone is too worried about, oh no…then this or that character will have too much trouble. Let’s just add a frame here take away a frame there, and that should be fine. Boring. We have 39 characters, and they should all be interesting or why do they exist?
My thing is, if a character is top tier, at least have them be hard to use. Allow their strengths to come from some of the most labor intensive, highest execution aspects of the game. I haven’t played SFIV in years so I haven’t a clue on who that would be, however, I will say Sagat was pretty strong and stupid easy in SFIV and Super (and I mained Sagat and subbed Gief N’ Ryu). That said, I think that if Capcom hadda let Super grow, Akuma, Seth, and Cammy woulda been considered healthy top tiers, too. Alotta shit they had went largely undiscovered given how quickly AE came out.
As far canon goes, Oro, Akuma/Oni, Gouken, M.Bison, and Gill are all equal. 'Won’t believe anything different until a SF geek actually proves this to be factually incorrect.
…it’s moved from there, where it was originally closed. I realized the topic doesn’t have to be IV specific, so I re-opened and shuffled it to where it would fit better. Have fun.
For fuck sake, FGD is not for shitty discussions like this one, seriously, why every mod of the wastelands known as the sf4 section and the mvc3 section like to move the shitty threads that they don’t want here?
Have you read the rules of this section?
And how in the name of belphegor this is not SF4 related when all those fuckers are talking about is who on that game should be Top tier based on shit stuff like the story?
If anything move it to the fan fiction zone, where is more suitable.
Fuck you, Tager is awesome, i hope you die horrible painfully and slowly :tup:
I’m down to my last two fucks to give on this topic. You don’t want to take part in the discussion, don’t. You don’t think it fits, get it closed. You have two proactive choices that don’t include doing nothing and ranting/shitting on my section.
A lot of Cody’s stuff could be made better simply by getting rid of the arbitrary rules attached to them. Let b.MP hit crouching. Let HK Ruffian hit crouching. Let LK/MK Ruffian and regular zonk knuckle be FADCable. Let Cody throw his badstone between charge levels. Give him a low hit confirm and make his overhead not negative on hit. Make Crack kick actually airborne. Make EX Ruffian projectile invincible at least during PART of the startup. Make it so he can throw/focus/use his command normals/special cancel some attacks while holding the knife.
Those things alone would help him a lot before even taking into account actual frame data/speed/damage/options against stand teching.
If they want to make Cody better at what he is good at they could approach it from other interesting angles. What is Cody good at? Frame traps. But what ELSE is he good at? stunning people and whiff punishing. Make his badstone work like his badspray/Gouken’s Denjin and cause chip stun on block and reduce the startup enough he can badstone more safely for frame trapping (reduce the startup from 29F to 25F so that he still can’t combo off of a counterhit but the gap between a cr.HP - badstone on block is no longer 10F but instead 6F to make it a SMIDGE better for frame traps but still unsafe enough he can’t keep you locked down.) Give Cody good options to deal with people throwing out fast cr.LKs (crack kick / Zonk are too slow for these during neutral.) perhaps by making his f.MP have some lower body invincibility. Increasing the damage he gets on a throw could also increase his frame trap reward without making his normals obnoxious, that way he has something to fall back on when they don’t take the bait.
Lastly making it so that his LP Criminal Upper is -3F on block instead of -5F would give him a safe pressure option that yeilds some chip damage in a similar fashion to Yun with LP shoulder.
Increasing his wakeup options via making EX Criminal Upper strike invincible to 7F and/or making HK Ruffian strike invincible till 1F before active (like how Viper’s HP TK works) could also help him without making him too strong.
Simply put there is a lot that could be done to Cody to make him a contender for top tier without giving him Cammy’s normals/mobility. TBH I don’t think he needs ALL of this stuff I was just giving you possible solutions.
And before anyone claims I think Cody is bad at everything. I think he does have 1 area he is with in the top 3 best in the game: Whiff punishing. His mobility may be low but if he IS close enough his whiff punishes are not only easy but incredibly effective. cr.LK - MK Ruffian hurts a lot. cr.HP - HP Criminal Upper has not only a ton of reach but does a massive 260damage. cr.MP - EX Ruffian is fast, damaging, and sets up some knockdown stuff. Cody is one of the only characters who can punish Yun’s LP Shoulder AFAIK (I think it’s like Cody, Fei, and Gief.)