She is probably my worst nightmare in A3, I simply can’t beat someone who’s using her right.
What characters/tactics are a good counter to Sakura? Her c.lk + the ability to hit confirm is too godly. I can’t get out of her pressure strings and she always seems to outprioritze anything I try to do. Any suggestions?
V-Sakura doesn’t have any hard counters, really. The short version is, you have to know the matchup pretty well, and/or have something that does a lot of damage to punish mistakes with.
Out of curiosity, who do you play now?
I know the game well enough that I can play any character fairly well.
I prefer low-tiers, but since I’m going to need to beat an opponent who uses V-Sakura in a tournament pretty soon I’ll use a better character if I have to. This person doesn’t make mistakes, and I can’t jump-in vs him at all. Sakura’s lockdown is too good, her blockstring is Godlike, and if I get hit with it, I eat a TON of damage. I already know I can’t use Mika. I really don’t like to play shotos at all in any game, otherwise I would consider Akuma, or even a mirror match, but for someone who mains Sakura, vs. my mediocre untrained one, I definitly wouldn’t win.
When I played you, your biggest problem was your lack of footsies, and Sakura absolutely dominates the ground game.
So Air moves is the way to go?
Yes, I know Sakura dominates ground game, and my opponent is good enough to prevent me from jumping in completely, so I have to beat her on the ground but I can’t figure out who can do that.
I can tell you about how my opponent beats me. Basically he tries to pressure me using her blockstring/hit confirm, if I get hit I eat big damage, otherwise I eat big guard crush. If I jump in or whiff, he’ll activate and punish correctly. Though he will sometimes activate when he doesn’t have guaranteed damage and try to either guard crush/kill me with chip damage, or cross me up for the combo.
If we’re point blank range, he will usually jump-in and go for a crossup, which usually works. If I space he’ll spam fireballs, but he does like to get in on me and not play the range game all day. He almost never throws, but it seems like every time I try to throw him I eat a light that get’s confirmed into big damage. He will sit far away and just whiff c.lps I dunno whether it’s to build meter or hope that I run into it so he can get a combo. Unless he’s throwing a fireball, or I’m jumping, he’s pretty much ducking the whole time, annoying since some things whiff or hit differently on Sakura’s crouch that don’t on other characters. He’s no expert but he can hit confirm off lights, and punish jump-ins pretty much 100% of the time meaning I only have to screw up 3 or 4 times to lose the match.
In the past he’s demolished my Honda, X-Adon, Mika, and Birdie, though I have taken rounds on him wih X-Adon.
Range-wise the only character that I can think of that would give me advantage would be Rose. She has s.FK and f.FK, plus df+mk (which is unsafe) plus she can reflect projectiles. I’m not good at punishing his jump-ins because he only does them at point blank range meaning that I have very little time to get off a DP or what have you. I don’t know Rose very well though.
Charlie is also an option since I can pressure fairly well with him and he can dash under jump-ins, and I have a projectile, but I can’t reliably do Somersault Justice much less combo into it, and Flash-kick will probably lose to a well enough timed crossup (or I could whiff it entirely and eat a full V-combo.)
I’ve also considered Karin, if I can time Yasha counters well enough that could give me advantage. I tend to stay away from A-Karin though because I seem to always accidentally do her qcf qcf + K super, it’s only Karin that this happens with for some reason. I wouldn’t have any defense against fireballs though really.
I’ve never really put time into learning anyone’s “correct” V combos, the characters that I use in V are the ones where I can pretty much just do ghetto V combos in the corner. Typically I use Karin in V but in this case I’d probably use A for the damage boost, and the ability to have 3 Alpha Counters if I need them.
I also thought about Sagat, but again, I’d have to worry about whiffing uppercuts.
My “best” characters, in my opinion are the ones he’s already beaten, Mika, Honda, Birdie, X-Adon. I’m pretty good/comfortable with Blanka, Charlie, Juli, Sodom and Cammy though. If anyone can offer specific tips for these characters, or the ones I listed above, I’d appreciate it.
V-ISM is a band-aid solution to your problem. Once your meter runs out, then what’re you gonna do?
If someone outranges/outpriortizes you, then what you want to do is avoid getting hit – hence, footsies. Reach can also be a liability; if someone can attack you from a longer distance, that also gives you more room to punish them for being predictable.
At this point I need to know what reliably outranges/outpriorizes Sakura’s c.lp/lk and her s.b+fp. This and the crossup are pretty much what I lose to, he doesn’t do much else.
As I said, I can’t really do proper V-combos (because I haven’t learned them) and I imagine punishing a crossup is a lot harder than punishing a normal jump in. At this point I don’t have enough time to get them down solidly if I did learn them.
Kyokuji, I’m not trying to get snippy, and I appreciate your input but you’re on a level that is much much higher than me, and probably even much higher than MOST people who post here. So far your responses can be boiled down to “get better.” Which is unhelpful.
At this point I’m trying to get specific information so that I can “get better.”
I realize that the fact that I get hit by the crossup is basically my fault, if I had better reaction time I could rape him for even attempting it, but aside from that everything he does is pretty much 100% safe. I’m not sure what trades/outprioritizes her c.lp/lk, and her b.fp has crazy priority too, plus he always cancels it into a fireball. I suppose if I got the timing perfect I could V-activate through the fireball, but that’s gonna take training I don’t have yet. I’m basically saving meter for alpha counters in case he activates on my block (which he does sometimes do) all this really would accomplish though would be depleting his meter since Alpha Counters do like no damage.
I think V-Sagat might be my best choice here, I’m probably most comfortable in V with Juli, but that matchup is really bad for Juli in every other way. I realize V-Mika has a braindead V-combo, but he can punish slides, which I do A LOT. I’ve played this game for years and years and I’ve never learned how to play it without jumping in because I still get a good number of wins without having to change my style. Problem is, it becomes a habit and then you run into the truly skilled player who can punish jump-ins correctly and I don’t stand a chance. Basically, I’m too lazy to have ever learned “the right way” to play the game, I realize I have to play really solid to win this match so aside from “learn to do V-combos” what can anyone tell me?
Can you be a little bit more specific about this ? I think i could give you some hints (if you DO wanna try using her), but i don’t know what exactly you have problems with and how much you already know about this matchup.
Personally i think Sak is quite beatable with Mika, there a far worse matchups for her.
Dont jump forward unless you know what you are doing. Jump safe, or jump VC counter only. Her Fierce and AA VC will otherwise F U up. If he has a habit of doing silly haha u jump so i braindead VC, counter VC him.
If he consistently does back fierce into fireball you MUST use this chance to VC and eat 60% of his life. It is a free opportunity to deal damage a win ground which is needed.
Try not to get cornered without meter. Remember there are no get out of jail for free cards in this match, but having meter makes a big difference. Dont waste it. You might get a chance to punish a whiffed fierce.
Know her BnB. Does st. roundhouse whiff if you are crouch? IT does on some chars. If so it opens some options and lessens her pressure.
You can easily dance a little outside her st Roundhouse range and beat it clean with a jab if she uses it.
Use your own fast high priority moves like cr. mp. They often give you counter hit advantage. if she spams her fierce and roundhouse. And they are so fast she will not be able to react to them and VC it.
If you want to jump, jump up or back only. Moves like ryu fierce in these angles beats her pokes if distanced correctly.
If you are a great fireball zoner it will take her great effort to get you effectively in the corner. Most fireballs are superior than hers.
learn to block her crossups, or at least learn you own chars SAC? hit moves/reversals. These get you out of these sticky conditions taking slight damage. These are moves that get you of the ground on the first frame, which disallows combos on you if you reversal.
It should not be so hard. Most Sak’s are dumb. just dont do dumb shit yourself and get squeaky scared. Or just pay some dude to spill choco milk on his controls.
If you have crouching attacks that her standing RH whiffs, then you should try those. Sak does not have a good footsie game.
Mika’s sliding kick is a good for example… If you use it at max distance, its safe on block, will protect you from those “point blank” bloomer cross-ups (jumping forward) and provide you a counter hit if he attacks. Mika’s cr.rh has some annoyingly good priority and because she lowers herself, shes harder to hit and moving forward will keep you from getting hit by cross-ups. You want to do this at the range where the sole mika’s boot will hit Sakura and not too deep so that you are punished.
At point blank range, this sak player doesn’t seem to take too many risk. Not to put it past him, but his most reliable options are to activate or cross-up. Like I said, sak doesn’t have a strong footsie game. If he does cr.rh at that range, the recovery time should allow you to follow up with Mika’s cr.rh.
More on the cr.rh. He will more likely jump as you are using this. Thats all he can really do. If he tries to shoot a fb, unless you hit him first you will trade and you will win. Mix up with cr.lp. (spam it) Remember, we are still at point blank range. Doing this will give you a window to block should he activate and time to slide or move he he jumps. If he doesn’t jump, you will poke Sak out most of her normals at this range if he tries any. Mika’s cr.lp has some odd range and its fast.
If he jumps, slide or do cr. strong. The bunny hop will move you forward, trade/hit Sak if her bloomers hit you in the air and you will recover faster than you would sliding so that if he lands he follow up reliably behind you.
If you know hes going to jump, you could easily do a take off (immediately off the ground after jumping) air-throw since he won’t press forward at the peak of his jump. He wants a deep hit, so you have time. If he activates, you just get hit in the air and flip up, but you are less likely to lose 60% from some v- combo. The same as v-chun activates and cross-ups, and victim jumps to avoid excessive damage.
The idea is to force his hand at point blank range with safe attacks exploiting Sakura’s weak footsie game, while considering an activation. Sak just can’t play footsie like most chars and anything her standing RH whiffs, should be utilized. Hope this gave you a few ideas.
I rarely see him do standing RH (or crouching for that matter,) he’s all about crouching lk/lp. The 9/10 hits that he constantly does look like this for some reason: (possible jump in) c.lk, c.lp, s.lk (there may be a b.+FP in here, can’t remember) xx Fierce DP, or if blocked c.lk, c.lp, s.lk b+fp xx fireball. So I can’t exploit the ability to duck under s.rh.
I rely on Mika’s slide too much. When I played him with Mika, I successfully used it to avoid getting crossed-up many times, but I also didn’t space it so that it was a safe slide when using it offensively, he’s very good at punishing blocked slides, and that’s the #1 reason he beat me when we did play that matchup. Even though Mika is basically one of my best, I almost never use her c.mp though it would stop crossup attempts.
He almost never does sweeps, but of course being a Mika player, I’m very used to punishing blocked sweeps with slide.
True, but the only thing I’m afraid of is what if we both do that (spam c.lp) will it trade? Or will his win? The downside is, if I get the hit, I get at most a 3 hit combo, if he wins, he gets 9 or 10, but that’s tiers for you.
Of course the instant air throw is a tactic that would work with any character, if I’m super good, with Mika I could possibly even get Wingless Airplane. This is something that occurred to me after I played him and I will be much more mindful of it now that I’ve had time to analyze his playstyle.
Ultimately when I played him with Mika, I lost because he was very good at punishing me on block. My main offense with Mika conists of Slides, c.FP, s.f+mk (good poke, decent priority, but I’m pretty sure Sak beats it.) c.mk (for range) and her qcf+p/k mixups. Without jumping that’s pretty much all I got, thing is he was better than most opponents about punishing me on block so everytime he’d block me, I’d eat a 10 hit combo. The moves I use I use because they’re decent pokes and good guard crush (in the case of f+mk and c.fp) but they’re punishable, most people I’d be able to do jump-in splash crossups for big damage, but as I said before I CAN’T jump in vs him or I’ll lose.
Yes, a counter VC bait would be a good idea, I typically use Mika in A but that’s a thought. Though he tends to do b.FP as an anti-air more often than VC activates. Like I said above I’m worried about my timing on the b.FP xx fireball activate, without being able to practice it, I’d probably screw up the timing on the activate and get hit by the fireball. But y’all have said some helpful things, thanks :tup:
Ok so I played a few more matches against a different opponent using V-Sakura on GGPO, and I have decided that she’s completely invincible. At one point even the person using her complained about how good she was.
B+FP xx hadoken is free win, stupid range, stupid priority, stupid stun damage it, stupid guard crush, has good range AND it’s an anti-air.
Also, I’m pretty much 100% convinced Sakura’s crouching lights outprioritize Mika’s c.lp.
It’s simply not possible to beat a good V-Sak unless she makes a mistake which most good players never do. Other characters have holes in their gameplay, but I’m finding it almost impossible to locate any in Sakura’s.
I’ve played this game forever and I’ve run into it a lot, I’ve always believed that it was able to overcome even very solid gameplay by high-tier characters with anyone but I’m not so sure I believe that anymore. I would honestly rather play against V-Akuma than V-Sakura.
The person I was playing in GGPO was better than the opponent I’m going to have to face in an upcoming tournament, but their gameplay was similar.
I think it went like 30-2. And the two matches I won were both with characters I NEVER use. A-Ken and V-Chun (I seriously NEVER use Chun.) In both cases I assume I won simply because both character’s priority was good enough to get Sakura off my nuts. It definitly wasn’t because I know how to use those characters…The only other characters I got 1 round with were V-Mika (only once out of like 10 attempts) X-Adon, and I think A-Blanka and V-Juli (who is one of my better characters.)
The only thing I can divine from this is “if you can’t beat 'em join 'em.” But I refuse to do that. I simply don’t have enough time to train properly in V before this event (this Saturday) or I would do that. Anyway…
I wish I played Mika at all, but she’s one of a few characters I’ve really never touched… Sakura isn’t invincible, even if she is too good.
-If the Sak player is whiffing low jabs, I’m guessing that’s when you should slide. Though obviously you’re getting baited into sliding or losing patience if you keep getting countered after blocks.
-b+FP xx fireball is good, but there’s a gap in it that you can super through, with all of the other characters you said you play- Honda, Adon, and Birdie.
-Know what beats what. If the Sak player keeps hammering on b+Fierce, it’s import to know that, say, Birdie’s Bull Horn beats it, and it can be used as anti-air etc. Does Mika’s slide beat Sak mashing on low jabs, or is that why the Sak player is doing it? What is Adon’s best normal attack vs Sakura? How would you play him in A-ISM, without the spinning heel kick move? When you realize the Sak player is looking for you to jump, and not really focusing on the ground, what are you going to do about it? Just like you have to know your best combo to be able to do big damage when you need to, it’s important to know particular match ups.
-After you figure out what your options are, you get to figure out when to not do them- if you have a move that you want to do all the time, don’t do it all the time. Because, eventually, they’re going to get sick of being hit by it. Eventually you get the joy of not getting run over for free, but losing just because you’re at a disadvantage and have fewer options, or you can’t execute, etc. But, at least you’ll have ammunition.
You’re going to have to put in more effort than a decent Sak player, because you have a character-based disadvantage. It’ incumbent upon you to know the match a little better, and come tournament time, know a few tricks.
Good luck.
Don’t believe that for a second. I main V-Cammy and V-Juli. Due to their low rankings, its an uphill battle some of the time, but its very possible to beat any character. I think the thing you need to do is try and figure out what 1 character can do to beat V-Sakura, instead of trying 10 characters. Its possible with every character, even though she is a better character than most.
To really level up in this game you have to really figure out a lot of character specific stuff with your characters. Trying to play 10 characters decently is nowhere near as good as being able to play 1 or 2 characters greatly.
I would recommend getting on youtube and seeing what people are doing against V-Sakura with whatever character you decide to use.
Agreed 100%. If you’re playing multiple characters, you’re better off focusing on one or two (I was actually going to suggest Cammy, oddly enough) to pratice vs V-Sakura specifically, even if they aren’t your best characters overall.
Sorry, I wasn’t trying to seem unhelpful. What I meant was, you have to watch your ranges more closely. If someone has a normal that reaches halfway across the screen, that means you can also look for them to whiff it so you can jump whereas someone else would have nothing to watch for except jump-ins at that distance.
Step in and out of Sakura’s range to get her to whiff her fast, high priority pokes like s. RH and b. FP then jump or walk in and punish. Against s. RH, you’ll probably have to jump because it recovers so quickly and has so much range.
After you jump over a few, they’ll likely be more cautious about sticking out her fierce pokes, which gives you more room to start moving in.