say the matches and ill try my best to answer with my opinion o n the matter.
Hey graham, I’m intrigued by what you’re saying about old Guile, so ive been messing with him. The stand short stuff is nice, but what else are you doing with him since he does seem to have all the fun advancing stuff(outside stand forward) that new guile has. basically, what’s your O guile gameplan outside of having a nice new aa? (feel free to put this in the guile thread in stead of here, makes no diff to me tho)
PS. congrats on your and your brothers’ performances at evo! I heard a lot about you guys from Neil (cigarbob), who’s a friend of mine and always made fun of me for being a “pad scrub.” Did you guys plug in some 'trollers at evo or go strictly stickly?
Guile vs Dhalsim/Boxer/O. Sagat
Ryu vs Dhalsim/Boxer/O. Sagat
What I can say is that O. Sagat is gonna give them both a ton of trouble. He’s O. Sagat. He’s a bad match-up for like everybody except Dhalsim and Boxer.
Guile vs Sim, You play the most patient game you’ve ever played, throwing sonic booms only in counter to the yoga fire, do alot of blocking, low forwards when he approaches close, occasionally you will have to jump and kick early with forward when he does a yoga fire to catch up since he can out-fireball you, from full screen sometimes you can do a prediction jump vs a yoga fire and roundhouse him, other than that, block alot.
Guile vs Boxer, low forwards to keep him out, and sonic boom of course, its a very textbook match for guile.
Guile vs O.sagat, this is a hard one, youll have to jump straight up alot over fireballs, use the standing forward without pressing toward or away to go over low fireballs on occasion, and use the toward or back+forward knee when you meet sagats low fireballs with your sonic boom and are close enough to knee him.
Ryu vs Dhalsim, alot of styles to play this match, i prefer the daigo method, dl some of his vids, he jumps away and does hurricanes till super is charged then approaches and uses it when your opponent either does a yoga fire or low limbs, once you knock down sim, use the mixup on his get-ups, thats either the overhead punch into low roundhouse, or low forward into red fireball knockdown.
Ryu vs Boxer, tough match im not sure how to win it, i dont play ryu enough.
Ryu vs O.Sagat same
I know when I play against Boxer with Ryu, you want to spam c. forward a lot to interrupt Boxer’s dashes. Fireballing him helps a little, but there’s lot’s of ways he can punish you. A lot of winning in this match goes to spamming DP’s and c. forwards. If you can constantly push him back and keep momentum in your favor, you got it.
till he bops you with a low strong into low dash punch when ytou miss a dp, or a low dash on missed low forwards, but id replace the dp with short hurricane kick, not as punishable
What happened to that link to the Japanese site that had the Matchup ranking for all SF2 games?
Do you mean T-Akiba’s site?
It’s still around, but the rankings are not accurate…
http://games.t-akiba.net/sf2/diagrama.html
http://games.t-akiba.net/sf2/diagramb.html
Yeah…that’s the one.
But what’s wrong with the rankings? Not I would doubt if it wasn’t 100% correct, but are there any gross inaccuracies?
Actually, it looks like he updated it since the last time I saw it. The top tier is pretty accurate except for the mysterious inclusion of DeeJay…
i dont understand japanese, can you help me encode the chart?
This was taken from the match up chart (win/lose, X/O)
1 akuma
2 O sagat, Sim
4 Claw
5 Boxer
6 O sim
7 Deejay
8 O Claw, Guile
10 Ryu, Sagat
12 0 Guile, Chun
14 O Chun
15 O boxer
16 Honda
17 Blanka
18 O ryu
19 Fei, Dic
21 O ken, O Honda
23 O deejay
24 O fei, Ken
26 Cammy, O Cammy, O Dic
29 Hawk, O Hawk
31 Geif,
32 O Gief, O Blanka
I’m pretty sure thats right. I’ll edit if I got anything wrong
is this the tier list?
Yeh, but seems really weird to me. He has Deejay at 7th, but O.Deejay at 23rd, while at the same time ST chun is at 12th and O.Chun at 13th. The differences from old to new for the these characters are basically the same, super, techs and a reversal antiair kicks, but such a massive rank increase for Deejay but not for Chun. Why are Ken and especially Dic so low in the rankings. Also isn’t O.Hawk suprerior to ST Hawk, but why same rank? Also why is guile ranked as high as he is… But the rest of the list looks alot more plausible.
yeah, dictator bison is wayy too low.
Blanka is better than Dic and Ken.
Go Blanka! lol
This is the only ST ranking with O.versions, we need to check each match-up to actually realize why some top characters are lower in this ranking.
But still the top 10 are about right (maybe except N.Sagat), Deejay plays well against many characters and everything with him is easy combos, crossups and high priority on most of his crouching attacks (low strong, low fierce are almost unbeatable).
O.Hawk is not by a chance superior ! he just has better crossups and some moves have a wider hit box but any match up that’s bad for N.Hawk is also bad for O.Hawk.
So explain the o.Deejay thing for me, almost exactly the same as ST Deejay when it comes to normals and combos, so why such a huge rank difference between them?
Also having those better normals for o.hawk, minus his super and ability to tech should make some matches easier for him, so he should be a slightly higher rank.
There may be more than meets the eye with the old characters. For example, O.DeeJay’s Machine Gun Upper is completely invincible, and O.Chun’s far st.Strong (arguably N.Chun’s best normal) can’t hit characters that are ducking (see NKI Volume IX for example).
I’m not saying those two reasons alone justify the rankings, but don’t just assume that old characters simply lose super, tech hits, and maybe a special move.
I’m gonna wait until I see Toutanki’s O.Hawk before I make a judgement on which Hawk is better, but I have a hunch it’s N.Hawk. That super just does tooooo much damage.