Seth’s mixup is better than people think, I think. He so much of his stuff can end in air stomps, which reset the opponent into a mixup against poke / command throw.
What people forget is that his EX command throw beats reversal DP…
Viper.
Fuerte.
Gen. (lol?)
All of their game plans are basically built on mixups.
neutral jumping with sakura is actually a good idea, but it really depends on the matchup. suprisingly, neutral jumping can work pretty well on sagat. I’ve had that dp miss plenty of times, or just get stuffed(sak is good at stuffing sagat dp).
Don’t get me wrong, there a lot better alternatives for a mixup, but neutral jump really isnt too bad, just depends on the matchup
He wants to neutral jump AGAINST Sakura, when you’re running your mixups on him, because he doesn’t think you can time a meaty attack properly.
I understand that that works online, that’s cool, but don’t test it offline.
Offline, if the sakura isn’t shitty, he/she will hit you in pre-jump frames every time right when you land. There’s no jumping out of properly timed meaty normals which is what UD is talking about.
However, if you’re a shoto, you can just option select with holding back, then d, df, negative edge release punch. The only way to punish this option select is if the sakura does cross you up but does nothing. Otherwise, you dp the cross up short and block the non-cross up short making you completely safe and in the right position to tech the tick throw.
Akuma anyone?
His demon flip can hit high, low or be an untechable throw.
He’s got all possible sort of fireballs and probably the best resets in the game together with sakura.
Did I mention he does a shitload of damage anytime you guess wrong? (and fuerte does shit damage, you can guess wrong a few times before being in trouble)
Oh, he also has the best teleport in the game so he can get OUT of everyone’s mixups
ultradavid: ah gotcha
We understand the hate, you’re an idiot :lame:
I was going to post the same thing, when I saw this.
Absolutely…no other character makes guessing correctly so important as Gief, and like you said, even when you guess right…your prize for guessing right is…another round of the guessing game!
Tell him what he’s won Bob…
yea gief probably gives the most damage for guessing wrong but in terms of options of mixups his are limted comapred to viper/sakura/akuma and others but if you guess wrong on the mixup for gief you will pay dearly
ur dumb :rolleyes:
Gief mixup game is the scariest if you don’t have a teleport like akuma. The combination of short jump, normal jump is enough to make him impossibly had to block on wakeup. It makes his knee jumpin extremely ambiguous. Then his tick game mixup that gets added on. Yeah gief wins this thread imo.
unless you main a character with a teleport, zangief has a nightmare of mixups. if you try to block, you’ll eat an SPD. dont even think about trying to hit with something that his lariat doesnt fail against 100% of the time after he crosses up. you will eat lariat. he can cross up splash, low short, ex RBG/AS to negate a jab. all his mixups lead to massive damage and another knockdown. practice your anti-crossup reversals. You might want to FA backdash, but if he is empty jumping, you eat SPD, atomic suplex, SUPER! or ULTRA!
Gief has the strongest mix-up game. It’s not a very exciting or interesting mix-up game, but it is the strongest.
El fuerte has another really boring mix-up game.
Rufus, Ken, Abel, and C viper have the good, INTERESTING mix-ups that are fun to watch.
Yeah, I remember when I hated teleports.
But that was before meaty short knees or fierce splash late option-select green hand gave Gief a guaranteed setup to beat wakeup teleports. You can still teleport away if you correctly guess that Gief is going for command grab, but you better sit still when you first wake up, you better correctly guess which side the meaty knees/splash will ht on, and you better hope that Gief doesn’t do crouching shorts in his post-air attack block string to beat your dragon punch inputs.
I do see how Gief’s mixups are quite interesting and it does make sense.
Now I will try to explain Akuma’s set for people. One of the more dangerous features about Akuma’s mix ups is that his mix up results from the demon flip. Nearly every normal Akuma has can be canceled into a flip.
Normal blocked? Demon Flip
Successful Anti-Air c.HP? Demon Flip
Successful hit? Demon Flip
The fact is Akuma can turn any situation into a mix up. Add on the normal Shoto high low mix ups and you start getting an idea of what Akuma can do.
And probably the most dangerous use for his mix up is his reset potential. If you are unaware of this I wrote the book on it (Well at least the thread)
The Reset is a calculated risk in which you take a lower guaranteed damage from a combo and attempt to mix up your foe for a boat load more. What makes this mix up hard to deal with is the fact that the target was hit out of a juggled state so he does not gain immediate control. Your foe’s character does this little back flip before landing so this gives time for Akuma to set up. Akuma then has the options to
A. Grab out of the flip
B. Straight Dive out of the Flip
C. Cross up Dive out of the Flip
D. Hammer fist attack out of the flip
E. Hammer first cancel out of the flip
F. Sweep out of the flip (Not the most recommended, but occasionally it comes in handy.)
The most damaging option is the dive kick since you can immedately combo after it. An example including a great one against one of the best Ryu players in the world.
At 1:40
[media=youtube]l_lPOMJJAJc[/media]
This one of a theoretical example of just how much damage can be done.
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Most of the time your foe is stunned before you can deliver all of the damage, but the thing is this is a highly unreduced stun. So it is still massive damage. In fact Akuma can get well over 600 damage from a single series that includes a reset.
Also I might add that a properly timed flip is hard to punish since it can even beat out reversal uppercuts and other anti-air.
[media=youtube]vUY4-WQ6-KE[/media]
I am also exploring the interesting property of Akuma’s wall resets being ambiguous.
So I will not say Akuma’s is the best since I do not have experience playing each and every character, but I will say he has some damn good options. I am still finding interesting details from it when I practice them.
The problem with akuma’s mix-up is you can avoid a lot of it. Most people have a tendency to sit there blocking against akuma when in reality, they should be moving around, going for air to air opportunities. You can’t jump out of zangief’s mix-ups safely and usually doing so gets you knocked down again or in another 50/50 shit your pants situation. I do agree that akuma has fantastic and extremely safe mix-up though.
There are ways to deal with that though. I agree Akuma’s non-reset mix ups aren’t as hard to deal with, but still can be a nightmare to get caught up in. The reset mixups are a case where there is no escape, only the right defensive option. Even things like back dash are punishable from a reset.
Best mix-ups… Akuma, Abel, Fuerte, Viper.
Surprising choices… Gief I’d say. Not too many options, but he doesn’t need that many when the ones he has hurt so bad. Dhalsim also has sick mixup options but only after his ultra is out there.