Only if you knew. So, you’re telling me that a good Bison or Cammy against a good Vega. Is absolutely no match for either Cammy or Bison, that they totally rape Vega. Is that what you’re saying.
I didn’t say they sucked, I said there not as good as Sagat or Blanka. They get there own tier because there seperate from middle tier, and from top tier.
top tier
top middle
middle
low
That’s how I tier…
I respect Bison and Cammy, both are really good in my opinion.
If only YOU knew. :rolleyes: See how lame these arguements are w/o any backup. Absoultely rape? No, these matches aren’t completely unwinable. Do they hold a definate advantage on Vega? Yes. 6-4 wins for Bison and Cammy, maybe a lil more for Bison. Vega has options, they aren’t as numerous or easily to apply as what Bison or Cammy has. Bison and Cammy both have means to get in on Vega (fast walking speed, forward moving safe specials. Both can poke with Vega using their roundhouses (Bison especially). Bison can take Vega in the air (something most characters can’t dream of doing). Cammy’s good in the air, but not as good as Bison. With Cammy it’s more about getting close and fiercing Vega to death. Cammy can also Anti-air Vega really well, as opposed to Bison. Bison’s anti-airs (or lack there of) is the one thing Vega can exploit. One final note is that both characters have fast supers, which means Vega has to be a little careful with his poking.
Opinion…
It seems to me that based on who the Japanese players play that Sagat is superior to Blanka. When I think about it, I come up with this comparison.
Both have damaging pokes with above-average range and priority.
Both have difficult-to-stop jump-ins off a short hop.
Both take damage well.
The big difference that I see is that Sagat has more and easier ways to link into supers. Also he has more combos in general.
Thus, I feel that Sagat is better and should be in a tier above Blanka. The only exception to this is A-groove where Blanka is better. (Why? No level 3 supers for Sagat.)
Top- (A/C) Sagat, (A/N) Blanka, (A) Sakura), (A) Rolento, (A/C) Chun-li, (A/N) Bison, (C/N) Cammy, (N) Vega, (C/N) Hibiki, (C/N) Yamazaki
Upper Mid(as in close, but not as damn easy to win)-(A/N) Ceese, (C/N) Iori, (C/N/A) Balrog, © Sakura, (N) Chun-li, (A/C) Ken (im not kidding), (A) Eagle, (K) Yamazaki, (A) Kyo
Mid-(C/A) Kim, (C/N) Ryu, (C/A) Mai, (A) Hoamaru(i give up spelling…), © Eagle, (C/K) Chang, © Kyo, (A) Iori, (A) Joe
Low-any1 that i did not mention. All are in no particualr order, and it is VERY important that u ppl label the grooves as well. A-Blanka and C-Sagat can make a difference.
Yamazaki shows 2 times on your list, and what makes him good? I always considered him low tier… maybe I just don’t play him enough, and hey Scamp. I remember you from SWF.
Me? Easy. On C and N, he can poke exceptionally well. His hk and fp have good distance, and they can combo into his hand normal very nicely. Hes kinda like Geese, but he can reverse everything. Of course, u dont go around abusing that shit 'cuz of them pseudo-cancelling. He has very simple combos that deal pretty nice damage, and his arm normal hits high, mid, and low. Very few moves can actually do that. That makes him good at poking, and at keep-away. K-groove is a kinda funny groove for him. Wutever he reverses adds up to his meter, and u can also combo the reversal to the super in the corner. The guy is mad long. His only drawbacks r his lack of very fast anti-airs, i guess.
I never played him because the only way to get him into the opponent is through walking in, or rolling. All of his aerial attacks blow ball sac worse then Earnhardt Jr… damn racing to hell.
Everyone in C, and N have the same poking abilities as any other groove there in, it doesn’t change. If you try to combo into his super you’ll miss the first hit of it which does nice damage, about as much as a fierce if not more… and he has sucky combos that are very limited.
C and N have major different poking abilities. In C, ull play more defensively because of no running. N is more aggressive. C u can air block. Yes he cant reeally jump at the guy, but the guy cant necessarily have an easy time getting close to him with jumps. So, they have to walk or roll, and guess wut! Yamazaki likes it that way! Basically i only know of three chars that totally waste him hands down, Sagat, Cammy, and Blanka. Im not too sure wut u mean by the first hit missing of the super. Everything connects with me. Limited combos? hp to 214+P. Simple, poking, decent damage. Every1 is not Sagat.
Exactly, everyone isn’t Sagat, which means not everyone should be top tier. And everytime I try to combo Yama’s Gulliotine aftar a fp, the first hit of the gulliotine always misses… maybe you have some kind of extra special CvS 2 where that doesn’t happen, I don’t know. Yama doesn’t have many combo’s either, all he can do is chain one attack off of a lp, or go into a super. All of his other moves are to slow, or not even worth comboing into.
O, i thought u were connecting it after the reversal. Reversal, super. None of that fp. I meant not everyone is Sagat as in not every1 has combos that deal 4000+ damage w/o supers.
You shouldn’t even THINK of using c.fierce to combo the Guillotine, just use c.forward…
Also Yama doesn’t NEED much combos, just c.fierce, dust kick, serpent slash and you have very good damage. Plus, you can buffer his outside s.fierce. His counter is very useful. Knife moves you forward. Great rolling antiair/supergrab mind games. He’s got s.roundhouse and c.fierce (actually stops jumping Blanka and Sagat). His s.forward beats sagat’s c.fierce… need I say more?
I think that there should be NO doubt, that Yamazaki IS TOP TIER…
Lets not forget that A Rolento and A Iori are top tier since they do win tournaments.
and Yamazaki is definitely top tier. He’s probably the best after CBS.
Ok, I see where this arguement is going. IMO, the tier list is something like:
Top top tier: Sagat, Blanka, Cammy, Sakura (A-Groove mostly)
Top tier (same, but top 4 are way up): , Bison, Chun-Li, Vega (A), Geese (K/C), Hibiki (A/K), Rolento (C/A), Kyo (K/P. Has the best rewards after parries and JDs) and Yamazaki.
Iori isn’t anywhere close to top tier anymore. Sure, he has the GC custom of death, a free poke with RC Rekka, but besides that, he doesn’t have Kyo’s ground game (explains Bas). If it became possible to RC Scum Gale highly consistently, then surely he’d move up to top.
Hibiki is top tier because of the N->C groove switch. We used to get in on her with run and low jump. How do we do that now? It’s not simple.
Rolento is dying out in Japan because other than having to RC KK jumps, there isn’t really much he can do about “RC x N”. Sure, he is really good in a LOT of matchups, like vs. P groove players (j.strong and low strong :)) but he’s severely limited. I still play him though, cuz he’s my boy and all 
Good lord, Yamazaki is not top tier. I mean damn, he doesn’t suck, but that motherfucker gets raped by Vega.
Wow no one must play against a good Athena if she isnt even anywhere near the list
- Blanka
- Sagat
- Cammy
- Yama
- Chun Li
- Bison
- Vega
- Iori
- Athena
- Joe
You can go ahead and laugh if you want for me having Athena up there, but dont do me, she is that damn good.
Nah thats true, Athena is pretty good. But I don’ think she’s top tier. Her supers suck shit in my opinion. As for Joe, I wouldn’t list his as top ten either, maybe top 15, and that’s maybe I stress.
So wut? Rolento gets beaten out by Chun-li. Hes still top. Vega gets beaten by Cammy. U, and many still consider him top.
I respect that, its just imo of course. I just feel Athena is that good and actually her super isnt that bad, especially in K Groove where I play her. It doesnt do the greatest damage but its a good defensive manuever and it can be done anywhere on the screen. There is just more to Athena than I believe alot of people realize, Joe 10 was kinda even pushing it for me, not to mention she gives Cammy all kinds of fits. I love Joe and all and about 10 through 15 was kinda a toss up for me truthfully, he does present some problem matchups for guys like Balrog and Vega but gets owned by Yama for free. And who ever say Yama wasnt top tier, you on crack son:lol: jk. Yama is top tier IMO he is just so fucking good and does way to much damage not to be.
someone explain how Yama is top tier?
and Athena?
sure her c.fp has GODLY priority.
but that’s it.