CCs were pretty dominant in A2, but I prefer the CC system in A2 to the VC system in A3.
A2 just feels like a much better rounded game, and it has that old school feel. The looseness of A3 is a lot of fun, but it’s ultimately not what I prefer in a fighting game. You just can’t dig into the characters.
wuhh, and i thought i was the only one who thinks so.
Don’t exclude the fact that A2 is cc and ac dependent. One ac in alpha 3? Big deal. Anyone can abuse acs in a2, because of lack of a guard meter. CCs can pretty much make you a comeback kid and vism even more so. I’m aware of the ban of vism in tournaments, infinites and combo glitches in a3, because I’ve seen and know how to do them. It doesn’t mean that I like to do them. In fact, I’m put off from it, be it ccs in a2, vism in a3. I think custom combos of ANY kind and infinite alpha counters are a waste of space. a3 has it’s bs just like a2 and you can’t argue against that. What I meant mainly about variety are mainly characters.
About half of any character for an ism, I use to have something against that with the separation of basics and supers on different isms, but I no longer see the point to care.
:lol: You FAIL for being delusional. I use any other ism besides vism, because I know what it’s capable of. Again, it’s a good game for having more characters and having a world tour mode on the psx version.
No. ACRs are a big part of the gameplay at high level.
At least in A2, the game wasn’t all about one CC (outside of Rolento maybe). CCs took very little time off the clock, so it ended up being a lot more footsie based. You had to have good footsies to prevent being CC’d. In A3, one VC led to an infinite, or at least built up tons of meter to land another VC shortly afterward. Everything became “rokotsu, land a VC”.
AFAIK, none of those (besides maybe glitches - I can’t recall any right now) were banned in tournaments. The only -ism that was banned in US tourneys when I still lived there was L-ism.
Because the game is not good enough to CARE ABOUT. You aren’t even playing the game. You’re playing the game sans what you perceive to be BS. You can look at a pile of corn-shit and look at only the chunks of yellow vegetables and say it’s not that bad… but in reality, it’s still a pile of corn-shit. Sure, A3 without Vism is fine. But that’s not A3. A3 is corn-shit.
i like that you’re defending a3, but what you’re saying here is fucking ridiculous. the other isms aren’t capable of anything except losing to v-ism, because v-ism is superior in virtually every way. there are exceptions, but if you look at the benefits and detriments of each mode on paper v-ism is clearly superior to a and x. the flexibility of v just destroys everything else, there’s really no way to argue against it.
Tell me something that I don’t know, but that wasn’t even the point of my post at all. You even quoted the part where I pretty much said in a different hint phrase that acs are an important part of the game.
I recall reading about it in different forums (not this site) on tournament gatherings over a year ago, unless it was false information and they were lying.
It’s not that bad, because I expect and accept the negative aspects in every fighting game. I’m open to change whether or not of it leads to a downside. I can bitch for a short while about it, but it won’t change anything.
This is the last time I’m going to repeat myself. a2 is good for what it is, but the only thing that it lacks are more characters, regardless of certain basics, specials, and supers that are on different isms in a3. I accept a3 for what it is. If you still disagree, then that’s your problem. It’s not that difficult to understand. Also, it’s illogical to say that without vism, it’s alpha 3. It’s the same title with the same sprites by the same company. Calling the game shit in general, because of one ism is illogical when not every fighter is meant to be a recycle of repetitive tradition of the previous.
If it was shit, then wouldn’t the users in this forum would have not have voted for it, let alone having a3 leading in numbers in the poll? Even if I don’t care for ccs and acs in a2, that doesn’t mean that the whole game in itself is shitty. Seriously, calling any sf game shit in general is a personal opinion, when it’s still street fighter.
jsheppar, I can’t argue against it. What I meant to say is I know what vism is capable of. I never liked depending on vism, because of it’s benefit. I think the only time I use vism is when someone picks it in an vs match, but not all the time. I still prefer playing without it and find it a little more fun that way, even if I’ll put myself in a losing situation against someone who uses it. It’s not entirely impossible to win without it.
I said what I said to GunterJPN, because he thought I must play it for vism.
The way A2 is played is really simplistic compared to A3. Simple CC’s, simple unblockables, simple juggle engine, abusable AC’s, no guard meter … A2 is basically all footsie, A3 is more than just that. I’m not saying A2 is bad, because it’s not and i like it, but it’s no match for A3 in terms of complexity.
Oh please, not this again … then what about those A-Chun (who made it to the final), A-Blanka (who was in the winning team) and A-Sim players you can see in the current Vegascup matches ? What about those Guy, Gen, Boxer, and Dictator players ? What about me using Rose and Mika in A ? Does that mean we’re not taking the game serious ? At least half of the characters are competitive in A.
And don’t make it sound like VC’s ruin the game, they don’t. Of course V-ism is strong, but it’s not broken, it’s not infinites all-over, and there’s next to nothing you can’t avoid if you’re aware of your options.
But this alone does not constitute a lack of variety. On the contrary, it is at the most basic level, an attempt for three different versions of one character. The fact that the SFA3 gauge only has two (one in X-ISM) primary functions as opposed to three in SFA2, is offset by the increased VC versatility and functionality, varied damage output and damage reception across the ISMs and some cases, different ISM movesets (controllable close and far moves, different X-ISM normal moves, X-Adon’s Jaguar Kicks; CPS1 chain etc.).
Further contributions to SFA3’s variety can be found inherent in its system, which gives no indication that their presence is there to compensate for having Supers over Custom Combos or vice versa:
You make it sound as if the SFA3 characters were plucked straight out of SFA2 with no new additions whatsoever. Case in point: A-Gen, V-Akuma. I am at a loss to understand how you were able to equate the choice between Super Combos or Custom Combos (more commonly known as Variable Combos) as having the weighting of fifty percent of a character’s livelihood, in a game with not only a brand new engine, but where the existing SFA2 characters’ movesets have been altered to almost unrecognizable condition. Anyway, in SFA2, Super Combo effectiveness and consequently use at high levels, can be distributed in roughly the same varied pattern as ISM-selection in SFA3. That is to say, in SFA2 some characters have poor Supers (see: Guy, Rolento) or redundant Supers (Charlie, Adon), where only their Custom Combos and Alpha Counters would be worth using; and vice versa: some characters are better off using their gauge for Super Combos or Alpha Counters (Bison, Sodom). Similarly in SFA3 some ISMs are not ideally suited for certain characters (V-Boxer, V-Guy, X-Guy, X-Cody), or give better options (V-Charlie, V-Sakura, A-Guy, A-Gen), or clearly give a large advantage over the other ISM (V-Cody, V-Karin, V-Sodom). And in some cases, select characters are equally effective in both A- and V-ISM (Dhalsim, Rose, Dan, Birdie). It even goes deeper, as these ISM-choice dilemmas can be solved with consideration to individual match-ups (Adon, V-characters VS A/V-Dhalsim).
It’s not simply a case of say, A-Ryu being unplayable or low tier, but rather V-ISM is a better choice for him. As a CVS2 player, I’m sure you’re familiar with this concept, where in the Groove/mode/Super Art selection system one mode proves to be better for sosandso than others (3s, KOF98,AE etc.) At the very least, SFA3 has 28 “capable” characters and contains enough balance between them (the characters, not the ISMs) to make it a game worthy of attention. Of course there’s a “best” character for each ISM, which then forms a tier like any other fighter. Generally speaking, that’s not very bad at all as fighters go. There’s a good but not undefeatable top tier, a broad mid-tier with healthy tournament-winning prospects, and lower down the chain, you have the characters who require more effort to play who can do well. Sure, it wasn’t the 112-character slugfest carnival that we had hoped, but there are more than enough decent characters and skill-based action and depth to keep the game enjoyable and engaging.
Simplicity and complexity are not mutually exclusive, and more stuff does not equal a more complex game.
A3’s juggle engine is not appreciably more complex than A2’s–it’s definitely more liberal, but there’s nothing especially complex about popping up your opponent and being able to hit him anywhere in the air as long as he hasn’t been blown back too far. A2’s ACs are definitely powerful, but not abusable. Perhaps they’re too powerful (I don’t think so, since the meter puts a pretty strict governor on AC abuse), but nerfing them to the point of uselessness as they are in A3 was not necessary. A2 doesn’t have a guard meter because it doesn’t need one, and the addition of a guard meter doesn’t make A3 more complex–in fact, the guard meter arguably simplifies the game, since the strategy needed to crack the opponent’s block boils down to “crush his guard and get in while he’s stunned.”
There are exceptions to every rule, but there is still a rule: V-Ism unquestionably dominates Alpha 3.
I think you guys are assuming that I never played A3 or something. I may be known for CvS2 now, but before CvS2, A3 was my main game, and A-Gief was my main character. I won a SVGL tourney once using him, beating Mouko’s V-Akuma in the finals. Choi took 3rd. I know that A-ism can be used and that you can win with it, because I did so myself. That doesn’t change the fact that I know that V-ism is the most dominant -ism. No one in their right minds would deny that. As I said earlier, “outside of a few characters” V-ism is the only one capable of winning at high levels. Across the board, when you choose a character and decide what -ism to use, more often than not, V-ism is the best choice. Even if their VCs suck compared to their supers, you need it for the counter-VC option.
When I said that every character is only about half of what he/she is in A2, obviously that was an estimation only taking into account use of meter. In A3, characters were given new moves (in some -isms) and V-ism obviously opened up a whole new world of options in the game. But I don’t think ANY of those options were good. Crouch cancels, walking cancels, infinites, etc. made the game the closest to having a “win” button that SF ever came to. You land a VC, you basically win because it leads to an infinite or builds meter for another VC. You go to Ikebukuro Las Vegas or Seven Islands in Yokohama nowadays and you’ll see nothing but V-ism and infinites. Even characters like Rose and Vega are dominating. I can see how it can be fun for the person doing the infinite, but I can’t honestly say that those contribute to making it a good fighting game. Players with no knowledge of footsies and ground game can defeat more experienced players if it is a match of V-ism vs. A/X-ism, respectively. That’s BECAUSE V-ism is so much better than the other two -isms that it makes up for the difference in player skill.
WHOOOOOOOOOO~~!!!
:woot:
I sort of agree, but for a different reason.
You’re correct when you say that V-ism infinites can compensate for the difference between player’s skill levels. However, it’s very obviously not free in the case of normal VC’s. If the opponent stays on the ground it’s very difficult to land a VC, especially confirm a VC. Because many VC’s are used on anticipation it can fail against a player who knows how to bait it and avoid getting hit by it all together.
Much like a DP or another anticipation-based tactic, they are very strong tools that are useful when you have a proper read on the opponent. But when the opponent is skilled, it becomes very difficult to land anything just on anticipation at all, since skilled opponents know how to avoid these types of things with baits and mindgames and very strong footsies.
But this is why you see this sort of thing working a lot at mid-level play. You can walk into any random arcade and see wakeup DP’s and jump-ins and anti-air VC’s and other anticipation-based subpar nonsense working, because mid-level players fall for it and don’t protect themselves against it.
However, IMO the really scary thing is forced damage using the fundamental mechanics of the VC. When you apply unblockables, guardcrushes, and even confusion/mixup VC’s it’s hardly an anticipation based tactic anymore. Some characters can even combine the two for a fail-safe technique. For example, if your read fails you still have plan B; unblockable. Thus, you can still somewhat guarantee at least some damage just for having the necessary level of execution even if your preemptive activation fails.
In the hands of a skilled player, any random crouching short short that connects from a skilled V-Karin player can lead to 100% unblockable unavoidable knockout.
The good news is, that isn’t actually what goes down in most matches. Even top level players can’t guarantee a win off a short even though it’s technically possible. Likewise, any random knockdown from Chun should also guarantee the win, but that rarely actually happens.
Still, it is a huge factor. And I think this is something players tend to forget about, though IMO it should be obvious.
For example; V-Akuma’s unblockables aren’t exactly difficult to execute and are applicable midscreen and corner. While they can be escaped, it isn’t exactly easy to do so, especially when you factor in the crossup unblockables which are even harder to escape. So combining that with his meter rebuilding, extremely fast and high priority (lol shoto) normal moves, and good special moves, it really should be no wonder to anyone why he is so good and why fighting against him is such bullshit at times.
But you could say this about a lot of games.
You can walk into any random arcade and view the 3S machine and see Yun using SA.3 for forced damage victory, just from execution of the custom and not footsie-based skill. With this logic, Yun should destroy the game at the core level just like V-ism should destroy A3. But IMO this is not the case.
Though, it certainly can be an additional handicap-like functionality. At times, it’s easy to say that some sub-level players are stealing wins because the character (or VC) is carrying the player. But really it’s not as though it’s free or guaranteed, and I don’t believe it holds up at higher levels of play. Even with Yun in the game the mid and low tiers of 3S stand a chance at winning tournaments.
And I would say likewise for the A3 mid tier standing a chance even with the top tier V-ism characters in the game.
Don’t get me wrong though, it is bullshit to some degree. But this is bullshit that I can forgive because I enjoy the game. Much like how I can forgive Yun for being Yun, and Chun for having parry > low forward > super and an enormous kara-throw. It doesn’t get in the way of me enjoying the game, even when I play mid or low tier characters.
I don’t see it as bullshit, especially not 3S-Yun-like bullshit (who controls a match with SA3, that’s very much unlike A3). I agree in what makes V-ism good is it’s flexibility, if it’s not your full-damage VC it can still be a guard break or unblockable setup. But that’s not broken, because most stuff IS escapable or can be avoided altogether, even if you have to make some small sacrifices every now and then. Even i found ways with Rose and her shitty A-Ism Alpha Counter. If i missed the opportunity to escape, it’s my own fault, not the game’s.
I’m not talking about stuff, i’m talking about what’s going on in your head while you play it. In that regard i think nothing comes even close to A3 (maybe VF, but that’s so different that it’s hard to compare). Sometimes it’s even hard to understand what is going on in the players heads when you watch a match for the first time. You have to interpret some situations, and that’s special, because it’s not necessary in most other games (like A2, it just doesn’t offer anything surprising when i watch it). I hope you get what i’m trying to say, i know it sounds pretty :looney:
Thrust me, it IS complex, you can build whole strategies around it (i certainly do). The way you air-flip is very important most of the time, because the whole juggle thing IS a very strong part.
It probably doesn’t need one, but having no guard meter encourages conservative playing, especially when paired with strong AC’s and CC’s. That’s not working in A3, where you HAVE to move your ass at a certain point. Taking risks, getting hit on purpose (e.g. V-Cody needs to do that a lot when he gets into trouble), always save an AC … it actually has a stronger impact on gameplay than you may think.
A3 Upper for the cast and Akuma being top tier.
a3 is still my fav alpha game. but i recognize its massive flaws. ive never been for custom combo engines(as fun as they can be, however).
I have SF Alpha Anthology and the original SF Alpha 3 on the PSX; But when I played A2 I was actually feeling it more than playing A3. On the real, A3 is the shit but A2 got that feel to it you know? So I’d have to say A2 and Gold A2.
Alpha 2 has always been my favorite.
I’ve had memories with Alpha 2.
Wow
blew my question out of the water but didn’t we already have this vote before