It seems that certain non-invincible moves have some sort of throw invincibility. For example, when I’m Zangief and Vega (claw) does his rolling attack while I’m getting up, I try to reversal piledriver and he hits me every time (even though I get the reversal message). Obviously it’s not due to it being invincible like a shoryuken, since Vega can be hit out of it with attacks. Also, he appears to be on the ground, so it’s not like a hurricane kick (or is it?).
My question is what other moves that appear to be throwable (on the ground and not invincible) aren’t throwable? Conversely, which moves appear to be off the ground but are in fact throwable?
Here are lists of moves that I believe are in each side of things:
Unthrowable (but appear on or close to the ground)
Claw’s rolling attack
Fei Long’s f+Roundhouse
Cammy’s cannon drill
Throwable (but appear off the ground)
Guile’s f+Roundhouse
Fei Long’s f+Forward
I may be incorrect about some of those and I’m sure there are some more that are giving people trouble. I’d like to know which moves I can safely try to reversal piledriver on wakeup and which moves I should just block. This would apply to non-Zangief players as well as most of these moves would be close enough for a regular reversal throw as well.
As far as I can tell, if the sprite appears to physically lift off from the ground, its unthrowable, otherwise not. There are a lot of exceptions to that. And claw is throwable out of his roll, I’ve gotten a couple people with wakeup super with t.hawk before, but its incosistant based on what part of the animation they are in.
Edit: Wait fei is throwable during his forward mk? I dont remember that ever happening to me.
He actually is off of the ground…which is why when you hit him out of it, he flies back. You can’t throw someone in the air with a ground throw.
Claw’s in the air when rolling, but he’s not when he does the last claw thrust. Fei’s in the air until he kicks. Cammy’s in the air until she slides to a stop (it looks a lot like her blocking crouching animation.).
I’m surprised that those moves count as being on the ground. Have you tried hitting them out of those moves? What kind of reel do they go into…air or ground? That should tell you whether or not they can be thrown.
By the way, this is also why training mode exists. You should be able to go in there and tell what frames are counted as being on the ground or in the air.
You can grab anyone out of any move in the game even SUPERS its all in hte timing, like when ryu in doing a shoryuken and gief games im out of it on th floor and in the air and oyu can also grab people out out the air i’ve done bison headstomp aND SOMEHAW T-HAWK grab me just befor i landed on him but, the most crazy one is when gief grabed me out of my Bison (dic) TORPEDO and i was in full flight he ws on one side of the screen and i was on the other…
You can grab shotos out of their dragon punch during startup when their feet are still on the ground. There was a youtube video of it but I’ve lost the link.
This is exactly what the OP is saying - and trying to list the exceptions.
You can check the exceptions rather easily by going to training mode with hitboxes on. When the red dot leaves the ground, the player is unthrowable - simple as that.
Claw can only be reversed SPD in between the roll frames. So you kind of have to read the hits to reverse in between. Japanese Gief players did that shit to me all the time on GGPO. Even against Boxer’s super. Free 720.
Um, just saw the video. How can Hawk (and I assume Grief) grab Ryu or Ken out of an SRK? I thought they were invincible in those first few frames? And assuming they have a vulnerable grabbable hitbox, isn’t it, well, protected behind the active hitting hitbox for the fist/arm?
Just curious. I see how it works, but Im curious as to why.
high priority grounded shoryuken = attack box in entire upper arm + vulnerable box in the low back area ~3 frames
air born high priority shoryuken = attack box on arm + vulnerable box in the lower area + back side ~ until ryu reaches the top of his upwards movement
vulnerable air born recovery = until ryu lands
very little landing recovery as ryu hits the ground.
Yes. It is all here: T. Akiba’s SF2 Frame Data website (translated by NKI). In the original ST, on the slowest speed, Ryu has 4 invincible startup frames, followed by 4 invincible hitting frames, followed by 2 frames where Ryu is “on the ground and not invincible (throwable)”. Ken’s SRK has either no startup frames (fierce), no vulnerable ground frames (strong) or 2 startup frames (jab).
In that video, Ryu got tossed because he performed the SRK too early. The part starting at 1:59 can happen, but it can also happen that Ryu will hit Gief out of his cross up splash, even when SRK’ing “the wrong way.” In vanilla ST it would, at least.
With Cammy (from the ground, using FP suplex throw) I have grabbed Sagat out of a Tiger Knee (he had left the ground and audio even sounded for the move), and I’ve grabbed Guile out of a Flash Kick (also had left the ground with audio).