If there is any.
Dhalsim
Gen
Guy
CE Zangief
Explanations available on request
How did CE gief get better?
I think normal gief got an increase in his spd range.
Birdie, they upped his Bull Horn. Does more damage and will knock down on a full charge
Regular Zangief cause of his Aerial Russian Slam juggle combo now
Rolento, Adon & Chun got fucked over a bit. I donno where u would place Bison at. His jump had a longer arc but was slower
bison got a air throw as well.
he had that in A2 as well I believe. All I can say is dont use A1 Bison in HSFAA
Best Kind Boxer: SFZ2A/SFA2G’s SFCE Zangief had his SPD range increased from SFA2/SFZ2. The difference in reach is quite significant. Check it out when you have the time.
cam347: I’m not sure, for Zangief, if the trade for the new ARS juggles which, although nice to have, can only be used with the Level 3 version - over the easier to escape SPD ticks and removal of his grab-them-the-instant-they-stand-up-from-a-knock-down SPD trick makes him a better character. I guess it depends on which moves you think are more important for Zangief.
dialupsucky: M.Bison had his air throw in SFA2.
Can you elaborate on this? A2G Gief can still SPD people straight when they get up before they can jump out… Even A3 Gief can do it. A3 Gief can do a FAB that you can’t jump out of when you get up.
Doesn’t the opponent actually determine this characteristic? I always thought the no-throw-time when getting up/landing/etc in capcom games was an attribute given to the the opponent, and not the attacker.
…and since all SPDs are instant (aren’t they?), not-being able to spd people after get-up would imply a characterstic on their part right?
How would I test this?
A2 Zangief OTG?
Or it could be property of the SPD that can be altered.
In A2, Zangief could SPD the instant the opponent stood up from a knock-down. Even if the player held up on the stick when waking up, their character would be grabbed. Around these parts this tactic spawned the famous saying, “But I held up!?!” Anyway, the fact that this works might be attributed to Ryu’s - or any other character’s - jumping animation having significant start-up to allow the SPD to connect, or it could be something else…
I specifically remember testing a few years ago, for a good amount of time, with Ryu, trying to wake up with a DP to avoid the SPD and not being able to DP or even hear Ryu call the move’s name and then being grabbed. I’m about 95% sure that A2G Zangief is unable to do this to Ryu in A2G, and even more certain that He cannot perform this in A3.
A friend of mine who is an A2 Zangief specialist explained why to me A2 Zangief is able to do this. He believes that certain characters, Ryu and I think Sakura among them, cannot escape the wake-up SPD because they are still in their getting up animation and the SPD is able grab them within some of these frames. Technically an OTG.
What made guy better??
It’s quite possible, how could I test it?
Like I said, A2G, CE, and even A3 gief can SPD characters holding up during getup. I’ve been able to do it with all of them. I actually find it easiest with A2G-Gief? Have you tried it? (I’m doing this in Hyper… maybe that’s why? If so, disregard this post :wgrin:)
The only hardship I’ve run into was doing it against different characters/modes. I couldn’t get it to work against A2 chun for example, but was easy against characters like Rolento and Sagat.
Strangely enough, meaty raging demon doesn’t work like this, so perhaps it IS the SPD?
This remind me of the ST thread. 
How do you know you weren’t just messing up the reversal? If there were indeed an irreversible OTG spd though, that would be awesome!
That would be crazy! I guess it’s possible to test in in an emulator or something?
In other news, A2G-Dhalsim can do lvl3 air-grab thingie after his noogie anywhere on the screen… even if they tech the throw! lol (hyper only)
ruff0123: A2 Guy and A2G Guy are very similar but his new Super in A2G is very useful. He’s basically A2 Guy with a Level 3 FAB, but without the the drawbacks of poor character speed (say, with Zangief) or the need to perform the move through jumping or buffering.
BKB: Testing in progress - please bear with me. Currently I only can only test on the emulated versions.
However, when you test the SPD properties for SFAA, please do so for the original games and not Hyper Alpha so we’re certain.
CHarlie’s a little worse in A2G: LK Flash Kick can be air blocked.
Is Gen really better? I remember having more fun with him in his PPP style since it was faster and the Reverse Waterfall (dp+K) seemed a little easier to time, but his KKK style got fucked over since it now had SF2 Bison’s slow floaty jump and was slower overall.
Ken, Ryu got slight improvements I think: New cancellable attacks (c.s.HK?). As if they needed them. Mostly, A2G was about weakening characters who didn’t need to be weakened.
cam347:
Why not use A1 Bison in HSF? He seems like the best Bison aside from maybe SHin Bison and the godly CE Bison.
Gen’s kick style jump is pretty similar to Dhalsim’s in terms of speed and height; and like
Dhalsim’s, it can be very difficult to anti-air with normal attacks from the likes of Charlie or Dhalsim. Add this to his other super-quick jump and you effectively have a mix-up game that has the opponent second guessing his jump-ins. The Gekirou was also a better anti-air and move in general, with its easier follow-up kicks. Removing his devastating CCs hurt his effectiveness, sure, but the changes he received somewhat compensate for that.
My understanding is that A2 Gief can grab any character freely on the getup because you can SPD a rising character out of their reversal frames on wakeup in this game. To my knowledge this is the only SF game where he has this (broken) property, but I could be wrong. Normally characters are granted invincibility during the getup until their reversal frames (the frames where they can cancel their wakeup with a special move while their opponent can’t hit them) are complete.
Also, EX/CE Gief has a damage increase on his jab SPD. All versions of the spd in this mode do the same amount of damage (35) so essentially jab SPD does the exact same damage as a normal fierce spd. Normal Gief’s jab spd only does 25, which is considerably less.
middlekick, can you explain the why guy got better? I don’t see it.
I thought I already have: both characters are pretty similar, but the new Super gives A2G Guy a new, useful tool that makes him slightly better.
oh my bad, I totally missed that. Thanks anyway.