Hey guys.
Im absolutely new to KOF series, started playing fighting with SF4.
I played KOF a little bit in practice mode, trying out all characters and played arcade mode to unlock billy and saiki etc.
I didnt experienced any fascination for the game yet. I dont know what to look for. In street fighter 4 I have all those link combos, crossup wake up game, comboing into ultras, hitconfirming etc. I spended hours in training mode like beeing addicted and had a lot of fun, its a very technical game.
I wanted to try a second fighting game and UMVC3 is a little bit to “special” or “freaky” for my taste. So I bought KOF13.
So what can I train? What do I have to look for to get the fascination for the game? I really want to give the game a chance after seeing so many positive ratings, which titled the game to be the best 2d fighting game. As it is now for me, I couldnt find anything special or fascinating, it’s just a fighting game and with the first look not thaaaat good.
And are there any good internet sites with clear neat character sections (Threads) which show the important bnbs etc? I liked srk.com a lot for sf4, all informations are gathered here. For KOF it seems they are scattered through the internet.
Then there’s this forum and the dreamcancel forum. Most of the actual character discussion goes on on the #snkplaymore irc channel.
As for the ‘fascination’ part, which is the actual good and not-lazy part of your thread:
I think the fascinating part for almost all players is that ‘standard mixups’, are not that hard to block. You really have to earn your 50/50s by superior positioning.
The superior positioning is the other thing players find fascinating. There’s a lot of complex spacing and footsies, and due to a lack of ability to really force unreactable mixups, the focus on playing footsies and baiting the opponent into doing something is actually a lot more dominant.
about the “lazy” part. I actually browsed a lot through the web and found sites like wiki.srk and have seen the Dandy J tutorial. But I havent found the best ways to start yet. And I need to hear perhaps a view user experiences, I have no local KOF scene here.
I played blazblue too, forgot to mention it, they have a good site www.dustloop.com, I directly became fascinated by the big combos etc and the air dashing and double dashing system.
I dont know why I have that much problems with KOF. Perhaps I should just play it more -,…,- . But I dont want to get directly destroyed by old veterans in the online mode and lose all fun, so I want to stay in training mode at first to prepare.
edit: I think I will start playing with Ralf. I like to begin a new fighting game with a zoning character with good pokes and strong normals.
I can tell already - it’s an execution barrier. Compared to SF4, KoF is much more technical, especially in execution. When you overcome that and learn BnB combos and understand the 5 different jumping states, the game will be a lot more fun. If you’ve ever played Virtua Fighter, it’s about as technical as VF, but in 2D.
I think the whole ‘KOF is technical’ thing is a Myth. I find SF4 combos much harder than KOF. The only thing with KOF is, that whenever something feels difficult, you’re simply timing it wrong. For some reason timing just feels very different in KOF.
I really wish people would stop spreading this ‘KOF is technical’ story. Yes the trials are insanely difficult, but they also have nothing to do with BnB combos. They’re really to practice your execution, not to learn ‘basic stuff’ of KOF.
KOFXIII is the easiest KOF so far, and KOF has never been difficult, execution-wise.
Also: there are 4 jumps, not 5.
But yeah Pr0ph3t85, the real ‘awesome’ part of KOF, is not the combos. The real awesome part comes from actual playing. I wouldn’t say KOF is a game that is really fun in trainingmode. Except if you really practice setups and HD combos, which you can put quite a lot of time in. The first time that you hit a 100% damage combo is pretty awesome.
Perhaps you are right and and I cant see the fascinating part, because its just to complex at first. I can already tell that the game and the execution is much faster!!! then SF4, its much more difficult to perform a simple hitconfirming combo out of light attacks and cancel them into a special.
I dont know yet if the game is more technical then street fighter 4 or if the execution is more difficult, I think it lies the focus on a fast execution instead of perfectly timed execution like in SF4. I mean in KOF I can mash the A or B button like crazy (when they are chaincancable) and then end the input with a special attack, that will connect ofc but is not the preferable method to get better and learn the game (in SF4 you have to link a normal after the chained normals to cancel the linked normal into a special). So KOF needs single fast controlled inputs, but the timing is not thaat important (it has a buffer system too).
I think in the end I must dare to fight other people in online mode to get completely into it (but thats not an option at the start I think, I will first stay in training mode to get the basics).
edit ok i wrote the post before reading phoenixnls last reply. As I wrote it seems that KOF isnt a game for the training mode, I have to seek the competition. I dont have a local scene here, I hope the online gaming is good (connection wise and netcode blah, there are a lot of threads about thaat issue).
Hm. I did it.
After reading so much about the “bad” netcode I started my first online match.
I couldnt find any 4 bar matches so I thought “ok” and searched for 3 bars.
My enemy had beaten the shit out of me as expected but the game was absolutely playable ! (I play on xbox live in germany, havent checked the location of my opponent, but there was no difference to online play in SF4 xbox and pc).
And I did not thaat bad during the match, my defence is quite good (no difference to SF4 in blocking) but I have no idea about combos or punishing so I just blocked and punished with simple C or D punches -.- . At least I could eliminate one of his three chars so that was ok.
I didn’t say 5 jumps. I said 5 jump states.
Back dash gives you jump properties. As far as KoF goes, I find it’s much more difficult than SF, ESPECIALLY SF4. Reversal window, shortcuts, and auto corrected inputs make it much easier. Perhaps YOU find it easier, but to be honest with you, if a lot of other people think it’s harder, then perhaps it’s just harder, but not for you. That rule can be applied to anything. In BMX, some people find grinding really easy, whereas others find it insanely difficult. In piano, some people find Mozart insanely easy and others find it very difficult. It really does vary from person to person.
Asking someone to explain why you don’t like something is an awkward and ultimately pointless thing to do. It’s one of those games that stands on its own merit and if you can’t see why then it’s on you.
A lot of newer players got into fighting games with SFIV and Marvel 3, and were introduced to the FGC and SRK through those games. Eventually, those newer players started to hear from older players, who told them that SFIV and Marvel 3 were ‘bad’ games (for a variety of well documented reasons*), and the only ‘good’ games were older games like 3S and Marvel 2 (for a variety of well documented reasons*). Newer players idolize and respect the older players, and took this opinion as the truth, but had a problem; they were on the wrong end of the learning curve, and it would take them literally years to get to an elite level in 3S and Marvel 2, when they were able to get to an elite level in SFIV and Marvel 3 in a couple of months (this wasn’t the only problem, but it was probably the main one). So then, KOF13 comes out, and allows newer players to get into a harder, ‘old school’ game, that has a decent player base, and is new enough that everyone is getting in on the bottom floor, so there isn’t a ton of ground to make up as there would be with 3S and Marvel 2. It’s a similar situation for older players; they said they were only playing SFIV and Marvel 3 because that is where the competition was, despite the fact they hated the game, but now, they can play a new game that has a buzz and competitive scene without the mechanics they hated about SFIV and Marvel 3.
Oversimplifying, but that is where I see the fascination coming from.
*Not taking a stance on this one way or the other here, just saying this is what the conventional wisdom is.
I didnt asked for explanation why I dont like the game (which is not true), I asked what other players like or find fascinating at KOF and I asked for advice with what to start as a beginner at this game. (Perhaps my english isnt good enough lol or I expressed myself unclearly).
Im sure there are a lot of interested people which like to start with KOF. But the only thing they read in srk forums are about impossible online playing (which is not the case) or impossibel execution or hard trials (that is not important too, cause mostly are used bnbs during matches).
I for my case will start to train more bnbs and then will continue with online playing instead of training mode (it seems that its more important in KOF to know about the matchups rather then perfecting long combos, which is good to know).
Backdashes don’t give you full jump properties, it’s kind of weird to think of them as jumps.
But just a pointer: Reversal window in KOF is much, much bigger than sf4’s.
The trick is holding down the input button, and it will repeat the special/super input for like 15 to 30 frames. Don’t know the exact number in XIII, but yeah, way more than 5 frames (which is the buffer window of sf4).
I think your English expressed well enough what you wanted to ask Pr0ph3t85.
For me the fascinating part of KOF, is as I said, absolutely, the footsies and dynamic spacing game. Not the combos, or the combo system. So you won’t quit see what is so fascinating about the game to me, if you’re only going to sit in training mode.
Didn’t know that about the holding the input.
As for backdashes, it’s still a jump state, since in a back dash you can do any command normal or special attack… I don’t think of them as jumps. I think of it being in a jump state…
I think XIII is the hardest KoF because now I can’t just mash C or cr.C with Ralf or do anything into rekkas and change the rekka timings to mixup with Iori and totally dominate the game :arazz:
AmishOpiate put it perfectly. I think people that start with SF4 are at a disadvantage because they learned sloppy execution that won’t fly in KoF or older games.
Thats perhaps not the right thread anymore.
I played KOF now for a view hours today, starting to get a feel for it, its all about aggression and keeping pressure on the opponent and dominating the air game.
I played the trials for fun. The required inputs are killing me omg.
cr light attack xx super (2 x hcb or hcf).
Common, how am I to do this in an actual match? sick.
Even the SF4 analogue with
Cr. mp (mooore frame adv on hit then light attack ofc) xx d,df,d,df,f Punch are quite hard to perform in a match (for me).
edit: Im playing with an arcade stick. Dont want to even think to try this on a standard Xbox controller, absolutely impossible I think.
If you’re absolutely new to the series, you should’ve downloaded the roms of 98’, 2002, and maybe 96’, and practiced with them.
I don’t discourage people from picking up a new series, or playing a new IP, but if the series has 10+ installments, you should be testing out the earlier games especially if they’re practically free.
Btw, this game is not recommended for pad players (especially with those who use current gen 1st party pads). You *need *a stick for any KoF after 97’.