Where do you think Ken really is on the tier list?

I wonder if he should have been cancelling the run early with something like crouching short.
Because the full run isn’t necessary.

You can do that?

Actually, no, you can’t do that on a run cancel. You’ll get hit before you run the minimum stop distance.

Run cancel should not have safe on block pressure, that isn’t how it’s supposed to be utilized. I know runs in past games have had it for combo extensions and pressure but it clearly hasn’t been designed for that. I think he has everything there to be a top 5 contender, but nobody has yet to prove that it’s the case. Sure, Julio make top 2 at WBX but I don’t think that justifies anything just yet this early on.

With tools like his invincible MP DP, 4f b.mp, confirmable TCs, air EX Tatsu, corner carry like a motherfucker and the crush counter confirms at his disposal I can fully see why some people would think he’s high tier. I’d just like to see a little consistency before anybody shoots their load pre-emptively about where he sits against the roster, I’m still pretty concrete on saying he’s upper-mid with the chance of being upper later on if he holds steady ground and develops enough as the rest of the cast develop through the playerbase also.

I think we all got sour at beta 3, let that bitter after-taste linger a little too long and called bottom tier too quickly pre-release, because atm I think he’s a strong character. I started to see his strengths just after beta 4 ended and started to vouch for him, but didn’t expect him to be this good by any means.

It’s -8 on block, anyone with a good sweep can punish it

the run isnt everything for ken. hes great

Did you all just check out the ken vids on the front page with Ken’s tatsu mix-ups and the 2nd video about the dashing? Those are really good tools I think.

Especially the running in with someone after a light fireball to apply pressure and get in from full screen? I can’t wait to try that out.

i figured out using vskill to apply pressure behind a freball on the first day seems like a no brainer

Yea it’s safer to just dash when you are that close. Kens dash is good. I’m only run canceling off of AA, behind Fireballs, and on wakeup. I might rarely use it after a blocked hard normal if I feel the opponent won’t react in time and can catch him off guard. Even Momochi said to cancel off of blocked lights sometimes though, and I just don’t think it’s ever gonna work. Players aren’t reacting with specific moves, it’s generally “see Ken run, press Jab” it’s a universal stop mechanic, it works on wakeup too, but at least meaties can beat that out.

I disagree with people saying it wasn’t designed for him to apply pressure off of run and on block. His initial character description literally tells you to “run to your hearts content, even on block!” Someone thought it was too good or something. Because it’s IMO why he doesn’t need his normal step kick or Kara throw anymore, Ken can just run on everything. Meh, I think the character could have been a lot more fun if run was more immediate in canceling.

Now now, we dont want ken to be broken

I think Ken’s at least Mid-High at the moment with potential for High tier. When a balance patch drops I don’t see him getting tweaked much over those who are seen as kinda stupid atm, so I’m pretty sure being a Ken main is a safe bet for good future in this game.

man that junk was super fun when Ken could almost instant cancel his run. I think you should be able to cancel after one step.

That would probably be overpowered

Ken’s run is fine as is, like Momochi said, it’s meant as a surprise. So if you’re being punished for it, then you’re being predictable with it and you need to mix it up. But even beyond that, the run has so much utility without the need of being cancelled off a normal. I do think Ken is reaaaaaally good in this game, but so are the other characters so I’d hold off abit before I label anything.

Nofunallowed.gif

lol. Well the run itself is 22f so if you’re canceling say a cr.mk into a run it’s like doing a cr.mk and following up with a 7F dash! Gotta be a surprise though and honestly I don’t think people will be ready to react to it all the time. During Winter Brawl 10 chris hu was commenting on how it’s really difficult to react to since people are generally looking for a fireball after a blocked low forward or standing strong. It would actually be way more of a read since he said you have to pre-emptively stick out a button, which would get beat by ken’s st.hk. Even on the other character forums you can hear people complaining about how it’s basically a guess to deal with ken’s 15 f dash or his st.hk at certain distances.

People are only looking for a fireball from Ken because they’re in SF4 mindset.

SF5 Ken has no business doing that.

SF5 Ken’s fireballs are nothing to sneeze at, and if you’re not using them you’re doing something wrong. I don’t think he does as well kicking back and chucking plasma as Ryu, but he can definitely get a leg up in the neutral by switching between aggression, whiff punishing, and fireballs in footsie range.

The only thing about Ken that seriously enrages me is his crush counter advantage…
st.hp->run is +3
st.hp crush counter->run is +4
… are you shitting me capcom?

Crush Counter is supposed to grant “huge advantage” … yeah one extra frame is huge… especially when all other character gain two-digit numbers of advantage.

I feel crushcounter fishing isnt even worth it…

Outside of the corner? Not really.

This. Joe has way more experience than Julio, and not take anything away from him but Yun is BS in SF4, I played him too. Still though, he proved Ken isn’t crap like everyone says he is. You can’t mk xx hado spam all day? Oh no, Ken sucks. You can’t kara SPD (that shit isn’t a grab). Boo hoo. Daigo himself said Ken is mid, he went Ryu over Ken cause he preferred parry.