Where Did the 3D Fighters Go?

[Xhominid]

During my visits to the FreeStepDodge forum, a problem DOA5 that is external to the game itself is that a lot of its community is made of casual players more interested on taking screenshots and drawing fanart than actual competitive play. There’s also some resident godtier scrubs with Argentus at the top who truly believe DOA4 is the better game and aren’t ashamed of proclaiming it loud.

It’s such a pity because the game is awesome to play and actually hype to watch.

Sadly have to agree with this…

I seriously don’t understand those who believe DOA4 was good for anything other than seeing crazy stages. While I can’t really remember how fully changed the Counter Mechanics are(since I haven’t played 4 in a long while), the “crazy” stages was just too ridiculous for any fighter, even DOA(As much as I like Gambler’s Paradise, I can see exactly the issues with that stage and others like the Jurassic Stage).
Combined with Itagaki’s hatred of competitiveness going full blast in that area, and DOA4 was doomed to fail in any competitive circuit…

FYI, if people REALLY want to know Itagaki’s mindset about competitive play in DOA, I can go dig back up an interview Emperor_COW made with Itagaki a few years back…it’s a real eye-opener on how badly he disdains it.

[KenRyu]

Hi, I’m new here. Glad to see people talking about Tobal and Bushido Blade. They’re two of my favourite fighting games. I wish Tobal 2 came out here, I really want to play it.

[BzChoy]

During my visits to the FreeStepDodge forum, a problem DOA5 that is external to the game itself is that a lot of its community is made of casual players more interested on taking screenshots and drawing fanart than actual competitive play. There’s also some resident godtier scrubs with Argentus at the top who truly believe DOA4 is the better game and aren’t ashamed of proclaiming it loud.

Oh man, what I read from that guy so far was cringy af. But eh, what else can I expect from scrubs?

FYI, if people REALLY want to know Itagaki’s mindset about competitive play in DOA, I can go dig back up an interview Emperor_COW made with Itagaki a few years back…it’s a real eye-opener on how badly he disdains it.

I’d like to read it for some keks.

[Hecatom]

I should stop talking, why? Because you disagree with what I said about your game? That’s really your problem, is it? 12 years of your kind on this site never really change.

I was thinking of Gundam Extreme VS when I saw Gundam Breaker. It was categorize as a fighting game, so I assumed it was. No big deal though.

[d3v]

Soul calibur 5 was not really a good game though

Soul Calibur 5 was a great game. It had some issues early on with balance (and never quite got some characters out of the doghouse), but the big problem was that the cast just sucked compared to previous versions.

thats why i said it sucked
also lack of moves and introducing that ex mechanic to compensate
they ruined ivy and yoshimitsu and got rid of setsuka who were all more fun and complex in earlier versions of the game
then making kilik a mimic
lmfao soul calibur 5 plays average
and without the asthetics to back it up it really is just a bore

I don’t know about “sucked”. Most the the top guys over at 8WR (Malice, etc.) were all over the game when it launched and pretty much loved it, while at the same time, were pointing out all the flaws from past games.

During my visits to the FreeStepDodge forum, a problem DOA5 that is external to the game itself is that a lot of its community is made of casual players more interested on taking screenshots and drawing fanart than actual competitive play. There’s also some resident godtier scrubs with Argentus at the top who truly believe DOA4 is the better game and aren’t ashamed of proclaiming it loud.

It’s such a pity because the game is awesome to play and actually hype to watch.

Sadly have to agree with this…

I seriously don’t understand those who believe DOA4 was good for anything other than seeing crazy stages. While I can’t really remember how fully changed the Counter Mechanics are(since I haven’t played 4 in a long while), the “crazy” stages was just too ridiculous for any fighter, even DOA(As much as I like Gambler’s Paradise, I can see exactly the issues with that stage and others like the Jurassic Stage).
Combined with Itagaki’s hatred of competitiveness going full blast in that area, and DOA4 was doomed to fail in any competitive circuit…

FYI, if people REALLY want to know Itagaki’s mindset about competitive play in DOA, I can go dig back up an interview Emperor_COW made with Itagaki a few years back…it’s a real eye-opener on how badly he disdains it.

The sad part is, FSD started as a place for people who enjoyed competitive DOA to gather, but the site’s pretty much been invaded by a ton of scrubs.

I’d like to read it for some keks.

http://www.orochinagi.com/2015/01/emperor-cow-meets-tomonobu-itagaki

LOL at him talking about how balance was a mess when he’s the same person who stated that wrestlers should never beat ninjas, messing with the balance of previous games.

[Xhominid]

The sad part is, FSD started as a place for people who enjoyed competitive DOA to gather, but the site’s pretty much been invaded by a ton of scrubs.

I would say less of invaded by scrubs and more invaded of scrub-minded individuals who pride themselves way too much over the game itself as if it would die if they leave.

Not to mention the overall drama queens that never know when to let something die and make life hell for anyone new who actually wants to know more about the game to begin with…

[Androgynous]

Shakes head Pretty predictable posts, Hecatom, one after another. You either need more time to evolve from a child or that’s just your comfort zone. Do you at least have the competence to stay on topic or will you continue the appeal to asinine tendencies such as looking down on me, because you think of Guilty Gear or really any game for the matter, as one of your personal boy/girlfriends?

I’ve always questioned if your kind for so many years have professional jobs of your own to ease off the minimum wage humor, instead of “protecting” your little video games full-time from evil doers like me. If you do have a good job, then you could’ve fooled me, because your maturity and intelligence are on par with someone in their parent’s basement.

Do you realize that entertaining someone’s opinion for this long that you’re against gives them power? Assuming you aren’t too slow to understand that. I really don’t want that power, so I’m not continuing any further with petty things.

[Hecatom]

shit

http://i.imgur.com/S8hvsJi.gif

[Omegamarth]

After looking this year’s Evo lineup again it occurred to me that Pokken is the first major original IP we got for a 3D fighter in a while. Most of the major fighting game releases we had in the last few years have been 2D fighters. As far as major releases are concern I only remember DoA 4 & 5, Tekken 6, TTT2, Soul Calibur 4 & 5and Virtua Fighter 5 and Final Showdown. There were the smaller releases like Samurai Showdown Sen, Girl Fight and Deadliest Warrior. It feels this style of fighter is on life support. They were very prominent during the PS1 and PS2 era. I can’t think of a reason why they fell off the way they have.

Well, I can only give my opinion as best as I can and it’s simply thus: People are just more open to 2D fighters.

I think the main misconception is that people believe 3D is harder because you have to work around more things than you have to in a 2D plane. I would say that’s not really it at all because most 3D fighters, as others stated, doesn’t actually go completely 3D.
It doesn’t help that each 3D fighter in and of itself has it’s own differences on top of their own reputation which can also hurt them even more:

Soul Calibur is honestly one of the more safer 3D games…except when it comes to everything about it post SC5. Now you have Lost Swords which in terms of ridiculousness overall is basically a single player P2W game with fanservice that would make Dead or Alive blush and the game itself literally lasted for about a year or two, giving off the impression that it was nothing more than a massive cashgrab and that’s it. Combined with people not really being all that happy about the new vanguard completely replacing almost all the characters and…

Virtua Fighter is just plain up marred by the “Hard to play, insanely hard to master” mentality that ultimately killed it in the West. It’s not helped by the fact otherwise, the game looks pretty bland and looks too “realistic” from the outside in.

Dead or Alive’s problem is twofold: One the fact that people continue to see it as “Fanservice: The Game” and refuse to see it as anything else and the second is the fact that people believe the counter system can be horrifically abused(especially in the earlier games, DOA 4 did not help any whatsoever) and thus makes it a counterfest.

Tekken is definitely the more successful Fighting game but the issue is well…even at it’s best it’s pretty janky looking from the overall attacks and movement and plays in a way that makes it look like Street Fighter 3D without the projectiles(It’s hard to explain this but due to how harrowing it looks in high level, the game looks way too defensive with more pokes at times than actual fighting at times).

Most of these is mainly from my opinionated side of the tree and I know I got 1-2 wrong at the very least.
But honestly…most of the 3D fighters issue is kinda of the same why “Anime Fighters” have a hard time selling and being taken as seriously as “Non-Anime Fighters” on the 2D plane.

I don’t like DOA because I’ve played DOA. And I’m not talking about the total fiasco which was DOA4. DOA5 interested me when they announced I could play my boy Akira again, so I paid 5 bucks to play as him and give the game an honest try. Not only did the netcode make KOF XIII look good, but the gameplay itself just bugged me. Critical burst, critical blow, and power blow just felt annoying. The counter system, though better than DOA4, still comes off as unnecessary. Virtua Fighter’s system is perfect, and has been since VF2. Strikes beat grabs, grabs beat blocks, blocks beat strikes. DOA added a fourth option, counter, and then pretends like it doesn’t exist while calling it “The Triangle System”.

Also you can’t buffer grabs, which coming from VF, is really frustrating.

DOA5 isn’t a bad game, I just don’t like it. At all. Except for tag team mode, that is fun as hell with friends and booze.

This thread reminded of how I wanted to get DOA5LR, just to support another 3d franchise.

I feel like most people just have a hard time understanding 3D games from a spectator viewpoint. It’s really hard to convey why somebody is using “x” move in Tekken/VF/SC/DOA as opposed to a shoto doing the usual business in Street Fighter.

They’re a lot more open (which is both good and bad imo), and having so many tools at one’s disposal can be daunting to learn. There’s a lot more to look out for in a 3D fighter, and a lot of people don’t have the time or patience to learn all the match-ups considering how big a movelist can be. And whatever useful information that is out there is scattered and/or not accessible enough.

Tekken does ok all things considered, but it’s pretty difficult just to get things down like movement, throw breaking, getting up from a knockdown, etc. which are otherwise very simple in other games. Ironically enough, the one with the biggest following also has the least amount of movement direction across the z-axis.

I can’t speak on DOA aside from having that “fanservice” stigma. The reputation that series has gotten hurts it a lot from what I’ve seen. I have a friend who always jokingly refers to it as “titty fighter” as an example.

Virtua Fighter is pretty dead, all jokes and memes aside. I seriously can’t remember the last time I’ve seen it listed at a major. VF is the game everyone loves…yet nobody plays.

Soul Calibur…is kinda frustrating to look back on in hindsight. SCV had the potential to end up better than it is/was, but a lot of the decisions made on it really put people off:

• The actual roster is just terrible. If you care about the story, then it feels like a slap in the face almost. If you don’t care about the story, then you still have to deal with the eyesore of having THREE mimic characters taking up space.

• Guard impact costing meter was a change that absolutely NO ONE liked.

• 8 way run feels like shit because if you get hit, you take both the extra damage AND the stun effect of whatever move you got hit by, so matches feel very defensive because both players are scared to move.

• Certain characters feel very lackluster because they had a stance taken away. Mitsurugi used to be really fun, and in that game he is fucking boring.

Daishi having a hard-on for 3rd Strike influenced a lot of the changes and really hurt the identity of Soul Calibur. I’m hoping there’s a SC6 somewhere down the line, if not just to break the chain of the last few games being so mediocre.

VF is dead because of how Sega mismanaged VF5 in the US. First of all, you have to consider that the game is 10 years old. VF5 hit arcades in Japan in 06. We didn’t get it till 07 of course, when Japan had a half a year head start. Also it didn’t get online play until the 360 version that came out later that year. So we had around a year with the game, until Sega released VF5R, which NEVER CAME TO THE US.

In fact, we had to wait until 2012 to get the most recent version of VF, which once again had been out in Japan for two years by that point, and had lost it’s momentum. That’s 5 years where we didn’t have the newest update. There’s no way to keep your game in the limelight like that.

If Sega brought back VF (Not likely), brought it to the US (Not likely), and didn’t mismanage it’s updates (Not likely), I think it’d be pulling in numbers on par with Guilty Gear at best, and maybe Killer Instinct at worst.

[Omegamarth]

@d3v

the DOA games aren’t terribly bad BUT they aren’t that great as well hence the “mediocre” remark; kinda understand why you would disagree with that point but in all honesty, i really wish DOA wasn’t too counter heavy. there’s still a ton of potential to make the series bigger than what it currently is.

hey, what do i know. i stopped playing by DOA3 lololol

But that changes the way the game plays completely. Counters to DOA like what parries are to SFIII.

5 does add a few more ways to deal with counters in combos (to the point where stagger escaping is the better option), that plus the changes to the critical state system means that the combo system rewards knowledge over pure muscle memory.

They did SF3 without parries. It’s called SFV, and even though the jury isn’t out yet on how history will treat it, there are some people on this site who think it’s pretty damn good that way.

[Xhominid]

@d3v

the DOA games aren’t terribly bad BUT they aren’t that great as well hence the “mediocre” remark; kinda understand why you would disagree with that point but in all honesty, i really wish DOA wasn’t too counter heavy. there’s still a ton of potential to make the series bigger than what it currently is.

hey, what do i know. i stopped playing by DOA3 lololol

But that changes the way the game plays completely. Counters to DOA like what parries are to SFIII.

5 does add a few more ways to deal with counters in combos (to the point where stagger escaping is the better option), that plus the changes to the critical state system means that the combo system rewards knowledge over pure muscle memory.

They did SF3 without parries. It’s called SFV, and even though the jury isn’t out yet on how history will treat it, there are some people on this site who think it’s pretty damn good that way.

That’s a bad analogy. DOA works with it’s counter system completely and utterly and without it, it would just become a flashier VF. There’s no point really asking for it’s removal when it’s far harder to win by spamming holds in this iteration than any other by far.

I don’t like DOA because I’ve played DOA. And I’m not talking about the total fiasco which was DOA4. DOA5 interested me when they announced I could play my boy Akira again, so I paid 5 bucks to play as him and give the game an honest try. Not only did the netcode make KOF XIII look good, but the gameplay itself just bugged me. Critical burst, critical blow, and power blow just felt annoying. The counter system, though better than DOA4, still comes off as unnecessary. Virtua Fighter’s system is perfect, and has been since VF2. Strikes beat grabs, grabs beat blocks, blocks beat strikes. DOA added a fourth option, counter, and then pretends like it doesn’t exist while calling it “The Triangle System”.

Also you can’t buffer grabs, which coming from VF, is really frustrating.

DOA5 isn’t a bad game, I just don’t like it. At all. Except for tag team mode, that is fun as hell with friends and booze.

Okay that’s your opinion and I honestly cannot change your mind.

[d3v]

SFV doesn’t even play like III as much as you think since alot of things (jump ins, cross up parry/block OS, SGGK, etc.) that affect 3S at high levels aren’t in V.

[Xvideos]

The last time Soulcalibur 5 thread was active was like 2 years ago.

[Dime]

Read the entire thread. Surprised that a couple of people got it right by my way of thinking:

Soul calibur 2 was the pinnacle of 3D gaming… Before some of you laugh… Hear me out:

First and only 3D game to have a bunch of USEFUL moves instead of the standard these are your 10 moves, fuck the other 200 only use these 10 moves

The reason was simple:

Some moves were designed to hit 8wr. Not only that, but the most powerful moves tended to be linear… But 8wr was a GREAT way to bypass that strength… So you had to setup your Linear B attacks. This made horizontal A attacks strong and gave the game some really good strategy.

But that’s not all:

Many of the moves that one would never use at neutral were GREAT, For parry battles… In fact they seemed just designed for parry battles. There were so many moves that were slow but looked like they started up fast and so made you parry to early. The delay moves were a good representation of that.

But subsequent installations of the series would actually weaken the 2 best things about the series… GI (parries) and the evasiveness of 8wr.

The effect was that the move lists became like tekken, the movement became like tekken. Instead of 8wr being the primary way of moving around the game was just dashing back and forth with the occasional sidestep… Just like tekken. At which point the game lost its soul. So many design decisions from 1 and 2 were still in 3,4, and 5… But were useless because of the nerfing of GI and 8wr.

They basically wanted SC to become tekken with swords and that’s what they got.
but people didn’t want to play that…l certainly didn’t. So I tried 3… Saw that evasive movement was much worse than in sc2. Saw that parries gave way less frame advantage… Saw that I hated those things and didn’t play.

I tried every revision of the series, but the devs never got it right and actually it got worse and worse as the game went on. To the point that GI cost meter and was super hard to time. Like… WTF.

Parry battles were one of the hypest things in sc2 seeing people do delays and throws and high/lows and moves that look one way and do something else was the height of mindgames and reactions. But Nampo fucked it all up and now only casuals really play the games.

It’s a shame really. Sc2 was one of my all time favorite fighting games… I’d put it up there with ST for how great and well thought a game it was. The only problems sc2 had was that it was becoming a turtles paradise about a year into the game, and that the unintended glitches were ruining the fun.

If they had simply fixed the glitches and nerfed 5A,2A,5B and 2B

The game would have been great and I would still be playing it to this day.

Tekken never struck my fancy much. 3D streetfighter where frames were super important and being able to react to jab frames on block/hit was to hardcore for me… I just want to play. Not fuck around and get an aneurysm.

[d3v]

You forgot to mention Step Guard which is what made SC2 a turtle fest in thr first place.

[Dime]

You forgot to mention Step Guard which is what made SC2 a turtle fest in thr first place.

I always considered Chicago step one of the bugs of the game. Very broken. But none of us Cali peeps really used it so I didn’t have to play against it much at all. What we did use was 2g and that immediately made the game feel real bad and only a few players like aris continued to play afterwards.

But yeah, you are right. It’s why I said SC without the bugs.

If I didn’t say it it was an oversight on my part since I’m so used to saying it whenever I’m waxing poetic and complaining about sc2 not having been a bigger game.

If you ever watched jd ok play the game, he made it look bad cause like all he did was single jab pokes with the very occasional double, and his GI game was all high/low instead of tempo based. I thought his style should have been nerfed out the door cause of how ugly it was. And he was a step user as well I think, but I can’t remember, he wasn’t Chicago though. He was like from where mick and RTD were from iirc.