He asked him if with the change to LP GH now every Gief will have to rely on jump cancelled SPD’s and Lariats.
Combo didn’t reply.
SnakeEyez did not look good against Gamerbee either, it was pretty free. Yes, it was only 2 games but it looked like he had nothing to work with. I think he had one chance for a mixup after a kd and of course Gamerbee does delayed wakeup and Snake got nothing. I think this character is dead in Ultra.
Also can someone ask Combo why already good characters like Ken, Oni, E.Ryu, Claw, etc are getting ridiculously better while Gief gets worse? Can someone please explain this to me cause I just don’t get it.
Gamerbee did DWU every time he got knocked down and SnakeEyez couldn’t do shit.
It really looks bleak.
It’s definitely looking like more of an uphill battle, but with EX GH combo back, LP GH safe on hit (kinda) and 2 or more frame cr.LK links, we can at least fight. Against chars without 2 frame attacks, he can build more meter and with full bar he gets 50/50 with super/U2 or hit confirm EX GH combo into EX RFA xx U1. That’s really threatening.
Cool, thanks for the info
So
FA -> RFA
lv1 90 -> lv1 135
lv2 120 -> lv2 180
lv3 170 -> lv3 255
Confirmed
I was thinking that exGH->exRFA1 -> hSPD is going to give a ridicolous stun as combo ender
If really exGH can combo from lights, think the stun of headbutt into lights into exGH->exRFA1 -> hSPD
FA stun is 100, if RFA stun is similar to dmg, it will likely be 150
hSPD is 200
Even with the scaling Gief will be able to give a lot of stun, no?
I was trying to understand if the most damaging option in some case will become end with hSPD(instead U1), get the opponent stunned and then do U1
One of Zangief’s current biggest stun combos would be:
HP Headbutt, close MK/HP xx EXGH+FA back dash for around 850 stun.
Then you just add on 200*0.5 = 100 stun on the end
Yes. That would be it. If you end the EXRFA with U1, you get 0 stun from the ultra. Thus you need to end with AS/ HP SPD / HP or HK normals to stun.
Could it mean a “touch of death” combo? Unlikely, introducing Red Focus will upset the balance, and EVERYTHING will have to be rebalanced accordingly.
The worst part of Red Focus, will be that, characters with superior long range or fast focus attacks, will have a huge advantage against the field. This is an unjustly dilemma.
Seems to me that they nerfed Gief to give players more reasons to use Hugo.
If you guys are actually relying on red focus to make Gief somewhat viable then good luck with that. Some of you guys are really over analyzing things imo.
You have to admit it will be a godsend in some matchups. Right now, you whiff punish Akuma’s sweep with st.LK xx EX GH and you get 170 dmg and no mixup because he gets away free with teleport. In ultra, he gets up to 524 off the same punish if Evans and Cestus’ numbers are correct. That’s a hell of a come up.
And with cr.LK getting more hit advantage, Gief is more dangerous in a few areas. His mixups become stronger as he can keep opponents on the ground easier, and if it’s a 3f or more link w/plink then we can use it instead of cr.LP, increasing our overall damage output.
If this stuff sticks, we definitely got tools. Though I am still a little nervous about not having a FA breaker.
Now that is interesting. I too noticed that, 70% of all casual and tournament players use Big Z. I think Capcom is trying to tap into and dilute that fan base, get them over to Oni and Hugo.
Well, Oni needs love. And Mr Hugo Haas - there’s way more of him to love, so he definitely needs more loving.
Red Focus has gimmick and gambling written all over it.
Now in this case with EXRFA for Zangief, its as an uphill climb or the holly grail. You should win steadily with EXGH, and not notice if its EXRFA time, but every once per month when you see both lights on - you can be like, “hey, I remember, there’s something I could be able to do in this spot. And then you enter the MATRIX.” But if you can survive the match-up without burning meter, risking life and limb on a -2 LPGH guessing game stacked against you - Then all the more power to ya! Pat yourself on the back, as you deserve this.
So what do you guys think of the whole “version” option in Ultra now? I think it’s pretty funny that we can now use a better version of Gief but now have so many more horrific counterpicks to him. If tournies allow people to pick any version then Gief will never EVER win a tourney after Ultra drops imo. In fact I think all the grapplers are done as being viable tourney picks.
Gief’s bad matchups from Vanilla now have an actual problem with the AE Twins being good picks vs then, and those twins can’t rum rampant now because they have to deal with an actual counterpick in the form of Vanilla Gief.
The game could get interesting, imo.
I think the only way Gief has any chance in a tourney is to just get lucky in the brackets and not run into any of the countless bad mu’s. It’s kind of a lose lose now. If the tourney allows any version then we have to get ridiculously lucky and if it’s Ultra version only then well we just have no chance from the get go lol. All I know is if EVO allows all versions this year then it will be probably be the most entertaining AE tourney ever. I imagine Bonchan and Mago are salivating right about now and I wonder if Daigo would go Vanilla Ryu or AE Yun. Also looking forward to seeing Snake Eyez and Vanilla Gief. Infiltration and Vanilla Akuma might be the scariest thing ever too. So many possibilities.
Version selection will probably be banned from tourneys imho
If they let Edition mode rock in tournaments, we can all pack it up. Vanilla Seth owns Gief’s soul. He’d basically be a gatekeeper character and never win a major unless the bracket is manipulated.
Vanilla seth vs Ae/2012/ultra Gief would be like a 20-0 matchup
Our best version is so much worse than some of the other best versions. So if tourneys don’t allow version switching then what’s the point of having this option anyway? Apparently it’s not available for online play either. Again, what’s the point then?
I don’t even remember how Vanilla Gief was to be honest, it’s been so long. I bet most of us would be shocked at how he played since we’re all so used to having him get worse after every iteration. Also if tourneys only allow Ultra then playing older versions would not be a good idea imo. Especially Gief players since he’s so much worse in Ultra. It might just screw up tourney prep and it would probably be depressing too knowing how much worse our character has gotten.
Probably is about push nostalgic fan of xxx version of xxx character to buy Ultra.
Aside that, being offline only no fuck should be given imho
Tourneys will not allow it, online you will not face it.
Only situation will be if your asshole friend want use it for a local vs, but in this scenario if you play correctly the positioning of the chairs in the room, you should be at optimal range to bitchslap the back of his head 
I don’t think Ultra will be his worst version if these changes for him are final. He’s pretty much AE Gief with slightly worse footsies, but with meterless combos, a hit confirm/combo (albeit costly) into ultra for huge damage and scarier mixups with more adv on cr.LK.
And vanilla Gief was dumb. Just to refresh: 1200 health, 3f (w/plink) cr.LK links, nearly non-existent hurtbox when he empty jumped making many AA’s a 50/50 guess, LP SPD did 200 dmg, PPP lariat hit high/low and some chars (like Abel) couldn’t punish on block at all and his jump arc was a lot shorter so opponents had to make quicker decisions on AA and it allowed him to stuff wakeup SRKs with splash.