What's the timing on Sodom's Tengu Walking?

It’s the recover move where he walks on his weapons (I forget what they’re called). I’ve only been able to pull off the move a few times, even in Training Mode.

I know there are two ways to do it, and the only times I’ve done it is by:

qcf + K

All the FAQS I’ve read say to do it “as you get up”. The other way is:

b,db,d + K when you get knocked down or after an air block

So what exactly is the timing for this move, by either method? Any tips are appreciated.

Do it in place of a tech or recovery.

Thanks for the reply.