I was in that trap for a long time, honestly. But I realized after watching and re-watching the 25th tourney that I was looking at this completely wrong. ABC isn’t the problem; my footsies are the problem.
I think a lot of the build-up of the disdain for boost is because everyone was trying to find a culprit for the timeout issue, and that seems to be the easiest target (though it’s really not the only reason). ABC’ing everything on every occasion is bad (especially when you can do max damage for a punish instead), yes… but boost combos are still a valuable tool and when used properly aren’t bad at all.
Yea its pretty frustrating when i want to learn proper spacing,footsies,higher level mix ups, and lllmhh still blows me up. It just feels like lmhh shouldnt be such a viable tactic in the context of high level play. I know i suck major balls cuz im getting blown up by week 2 badintent gief cuz he has wayyyy better spacing and footsies than i do. I just think when i think high level play i want to be hit by advanced tactics,advanced mix ups etc. Not dive kick cr.lk set ups that can be easily raw launched. I guess it shows that i have so much to learn about high level in general.
Its fun to constantly rush down but if you are constantly losing to jabs and stuff and you know they are mashing light attacks sometimes just take a step back block. Cool yourself down if you are getting frustrated and just learn what your characters can do against this type of tactic. Try and wait. Most people who do this tend to have patterns so read their patterns and find a weakness that you can expose
If you’re using tactics that lose to “scrub tactics”, that’s your fault for playing poorly, not their fault for beating you with them. It means you need to scale things back and work on your fundamentals. Fundamentals isn’t a magic word that means “playing well”, it means having a base-level of execution, strategy, and reactions that you can beat the obvious, dumb stuff. Once both players are good enough that the dumb stuff doesn’t work, then you can start being all “high level” or whatever.
You’re taking the wrong approach entirely if your reaction to these losses is “man fuck those scrubs for beating me with their scrub tactics while I was trying to play legit”, your reaction should be to blame yourself for having poor enough fundamentals that you lose to “scrub tactics”. You certainly can’t blame them for using them if they’re working!
A lot of people hate on random online play, but one thing it does do well is teaches you how to play against unpredictable people that don’t respect your play. You need to be able to beat those people if you want to ever have a hope of beating people better, because it’s always possible to play retarded, and if you can’t beat retarded, you’re in trouble.
I’m a B rank who neither uses ‘scrubby tactics’ of loads of lights into launcher nor goes ham 24/7 with pressure, and I’m certainly not considered pro…does that make me…average DansGame Haha.
But yeah, some good real talk in here and I’m glad to see the SFxT monsters keeping it real. I’ve always believed in just letting people play how they want, the onus is upon me however to play the best game I can play, to respect other people’s play, and to show others the way. If people wanna mash lights and play dumb then good, all the more practise for me to blow up those who aren’t good and figure out ways not to get blown up by the random stuff => Cause it’s a fact of all fighting games that no matter how good you may be or think you are the ‘scrubby’ or ‘lame’ shit can and usually will mess you up, and the mark of a truly good player is one who can fight through it no matter what, and the first step is accepting that it does exist and learning how to fight through it. You’ve always got to ask yourself not ‘what’s the point’ or ‘why is it in this game’, but instead ‘how do I beat that’ and ‘what should I learn/develop next’. That’s the way I see it anyway.
Eh, no. There are players that refuse to pay attention to what’s going on, regardless of how much fear you’ve tried to impose certain things onto them to prevent them from doing certain things. It takes some trial and error to actually realize how unaware and unintelligent some players can be and until then, even the best players are going to get hit by those random boost chains and other randomness until they’ve eventually pinpointed accurately what that player’s tendencies are.
Getting hit by random stupid shit doesn’t equate to the player’s fundamentals and spacing being off(though in some cases, yeah it’s true). If you can’t see this, I really question how aware you are of what’s really going on psychologically, in the matches you play.
The solution to not getting hit by certain scrub tactics (not necessarily mashing boost chains but some other things) is for you to not commit to anything yourself against anyone you play (especially online) and just let them hang themselves…the problem is that if you run into a player that is actually good, you might end up giving them some extra opportunities by the time you realize they are actually good, which can cost you the match.
It’s not the tactic itself but the way and reason it’s being used, that would classify it as a scrub tactic. It’s really about the mentality. Generally, it has to do with a lower level player trying to find some tactic to use that is mindless and effortless and trying to get by with it instead of actually learning the game.
Tick throws aren’t scrubby but I’ve fought someone who would attempt them every time he got close to me. To him, it was “easy” damage and extremely effortless, so his entire game got reduced to just doing that(probably from how well it worked in the past, he had like almost 10K BP) instead of learning the overall gameplay with his characters. In this particular example, he was using a scrub tactic.
Nah, doing the same thing over and over again isn’t necessarily scrubby. If it works he will keep doing it until the scrub (you in this case?) gets to his level and forces him to put more effort into his game. You say it’s “free effortless damage for him”, that means you kept failing to tech or avoid his throws and that makes him the scrub?
That said, if you keep anti-airing someone and he keeps jumping at you then yeah that player could be considered a scrub because 1. He doesn’t learn from his mistakes and 2. He doesn’t know how to get in and apply pressure without jumping on you first.
Yeah, some players are stupid/bad and don’t pay attention to mid-range. You can’t play footsies against someone who keeps jumping around like a fool just like you can’t frame trap someone who mashes DP all day. That’s pretty obvious. But what’s your point? There are bad players in every game.
Doesn’t change the fact that if you pay attention to your spacing and what your opponent is doing, then you shouldn’t get CONSTANTLY hit by :"random ABCs" and feel so butthurt about it that you feel the need to create a rant thread on SRK. You said it yourself: you’re supposed to recognize your opponent’s tendencies. If you try to frame trap someone who keeps mashing reversal, then don’t cry about it and don’t blame the other player for “not being smart enough to fall for your all mighty frame traps”. Blame yourself for being too freaking stupid and not seeing that he mashes reversal every time you get close to him.
btw I never said that only bad players with bad fundamentals get hit by “random stupid shit”. If you think that is what I said then I question your ability to read and understand stuff.
First off, if you read, I didn’t say that I was falling for it. I just said that he had accumulated a lot of BP doing this. The reason a lot of bad players do the same thing over and over is sometimes because it works, but mostly because they don’t know anything better and don’t want to put in the effort to figure out or execute anything better.
An Akuma that I just fought just kept jumping back with air fireballs. I just kept doing Lili feisty rabbit over and over through it until he got into the corner, then he died.
My definition of scrub is much broader. I usually group in the people that are interested in winning BEFORE learning. These are the people that just latch on to the brainless and easy tactics and attempt to repeat them over and over for some easy wins online.
My point is that it takes some experimentation to realize just how bad/unaware some players are. And through that experimentation, you could end up getting hit by a lot of dumb things…this is, unless you just play with the assumption that everyone is retarded until proven otherwise.
And there’s times where you stop your frametraps half way to block and they still mash dps…and then you believe that they will catch onto this and realize that they might not do it the next time, so next time you go with the full frametrap or maybe walk up throw and what do you know…another mashed reversal.
So to the OP, if you’re playing online, just let them hang themselves by not committing to many actions(like normals up close, walk up throw, etc).
Wouldn’t this be over-thinking things? Not saying you’re necessarily wrong or anything, just going off of what I’ve been told A LOT over the years and why I usually tend to lose in tournies (amongst other things): I over-think situations like this.
So in this case, if they’re constantly dp’ing frame traps, then the response would be to not do them until they actually stop dp’ing. And they probably won’t.
Note: I say this as someone who constantly does the bolded portion of that quote, lol.
Gawdamn, shoutouts to based Vulcan Hades. I thought y’all be interested to know that this thread inspired me to make this, and give it a listen if you want cause it briefly touches upon what we’re talking about here:
Hmm…this thread turned out into a pretty well discussion lol. I seem to be fighting a lot of people Emil mentioned. I try to do frame traps and block strings and yes this is online so I’ll prob be dropping links thus a mashed out DP will win. Thanks to all who contributed in this thread. I’ll improve my game much better once I start playing smart play.
I don’t think there is a “smart” or “stupid” way to approach a given situation. Sometimes mashing DP is what you need to do to get out of insane pressure. Sometimes laming it out until time out is the smartest thing to do. Hell, sometimes doing a raw tag and eating a full combo is smarter than trying to be a hero. It always depends on the situation/spacing/time on the clock etc. and the player/character you’re fighting against.
I’d say the most important thing is to try and adapt. Then play the smartest accordingly.
Start the round by testing the habits/patterns and reactions of your opponent. The more inexperienced your opponent is, the easier it should be to detect their weaknesses.
Hah, it’s all good. It’s funny cause once I’d kinda realized I was a ‘king of noobs’ of sorts, and it bothered me for quite a while since I felt like I wanted to be the best overall not just be the best out of people who weren’t that good (cause it meant I wasn’t really that great myself). But after a while I realized that dealing with new player tactics is actually useful in the long run and I’m glad that at the very least I won’t lose to stupid shit the majority of the time. And I agree with your last post, I’m one of those kind of people who doesn’t limit myself to a so called ‘pro’ style of play, I’ll just do what needs to be done. And if it means down backing, mashing DP or throwing out the same move a couple of times then I’ll do it =>
