Ill elaborate through my responses to the replies on why this confuses me.
a gimmick is a technique that not all people might be aware of - and is(usually) pretty easy to see coming and block/punish accordingly
mindgames are on the fly, educated guesses on what the opponent is doing based on training them to act a certain way
some gimmicks can be mindgames, but mindgames are not gimmicks
gimmicks are supposed to mean one-off surprise tactics that are generally fairly brain dead (you just kind of do it, without much need for setups or whatever) and you get punished for it if the opponent knows how to deal with it. they’re character/match-up specific. like, for a couple hours when everyone in my scene was new spamming honda’s butt stomp on wakeup messed everybody up but it’s not a very good idea and only succeeded coz we weren’t smart enough at street fighter to find out how to escape
mind games are things like mixups or other plays where you mess with the opponent’s ability to play the game. rattling someone with a stupid gimmick could be part of a mind game, but otherwise your ability to play them should be fairly reliable
if gimmicks are good then the game isn’t
Mind game is making your opponent think you’re going to do something then doing something different.
Gimmicks are random suprise moves your opponent wont be expecting. Gimmicks can be mind games but, are generally incredibly risky and will only work one time. Unless it’s a bad game and the gimmicks can be exploited without punishment.
Abel doing low sweep cancel into wheel kick could be considered a gimmick because it makes your opponent block low then immediately high but, the high attack is very punishable.
Gimmicks usually only work when used against people who don’t know about then, or are really not expecting you to use it. They also usually have a pretty bad risk/reward which is why they are gimmicks and not solid tactics.
Alot of gimmicks are bad decisions, unless they hit then they’re genius.
wakeup ultra is a gimmick if you play someone who is already good enough that you know they won’t do wakeup ultra because they know how absolutely scrubby it is, so you start playing then with higher level tactics because they would never do something as dumb as wakeup ultra. and they do it and it hits because you thought there was no way they would try something that stupid. THATS A GIMMICK.
If they tried it again the next round there no way that ultra would hit again unless you were just a terrible player. So it is a mindgame, but your not really choosing between two good options your choosing between something smart and something that could fail horribly if detected early but is much more unexpected.
Stuff like spacing a blanka ball so blanka lands directly in front of someone and then going for something else, if the person knew before that the ball wasn’t going to hit you’ld be open to all types of free damage the only reason it works is because of the surprise, but it you go for it again the person will probably be paying much closer attention to the spot where you started to figue out if you will stop before you hit them, which they might not have done the first time.
Add online lag into the mix and gimmicks become “tactics”.
When Blanka/Bison/Vega do an unexpected, effective technique, it’s a gimmick.
When Ryu/Akuma/Chun/Guile/The Rest of the Cast does an unexpected, effective technique, it’s a mindgame.
Got it?
Both terms are kind of broad, and ambiguous, so I don’t really know if I agree with the other posters. Mindgames typically can refer to any aspect of SF that involves something mental, like predicting your opponents move, or setting up a certain situation. Some high risk, ballsy move can be called a gimmick, but so can spamming a move over and over, or anything considered mindless, shallow, or unconventional.
I think the only difference you can say for certain no matter peoples interpretation of the term, is mindgame describes an aspect of the game strategy wise, while gimmicks merely describe a particular setup or move.
I thought pros using wake up ultras were using them as mindgames or else having real good reactions lol.
If I missed them with it then it was just a gimmick. If I hit them with it then it was all mindgames. At least, that’s what I tell everyone I play against.
This is called a “boast/excuse option select” and it’s without a doubt the most useful technique that anyone has ever taught me.
a good example of this would be something that happened to me today
i was in a chun mirror match, and they were losing, full screen away. they started taunting, i mimicked them, and this process went on for a bit.
they thought they could catch me in a taunt or other move and hit me with an ultra, but i was baiting the dash ultra the entire time and took the round.
they were trying a gimmick, hoping someone will copy your taunting/random move pattern and then hitting them with an ultra. its not a real strategy and anyone with a brain can see it coming.
i was using a mind game, knowing full well the intentions and only copying patterns i knew would not leave me in a situation i didnt want to be in.
seems goofy but ive seen a few people try stuff like this before and it never works.
This sounds more like a pre-school version of what the real discussion is about.
A gimmick: *Cammy’s Hooligan tricks *(some are unblockable, some are tricky, and some come out pretty fast) are ALL considered Gimmicks because they can be punished pretty easily and don’t really require much thought into them. Its kind of a “surprise” attack. However, you could use gimmicks as minor mindgames.
A Mindgame: Really it could be anything from doing white noise to performing a safe-jump or throwing out a perfect fireball in hopes that your opponent will jump over it (and you punish it accordingly).
So in essence, a Mindgame is really what it sounds like: You are employing tactics or moves (or in some cases, doing nothing) which force your opponent to think and guess what he should do next, usually resulting in him guessing wrong (i.e. “You’re messing with my mind” - Mindgame)
A gimmick on the other hand could be something that a player doesn’t really expect, or know how to fully defend against/punish.
The perfect example of a character who can do both at the same time is El Fuerte. He can be gimmicky as well as mess with your reaction.
Gimmicks are often tactics or moves that catch a player off guard when they don’t know the matchup well or have never seen the gimmick before.
For example, I abuse a particular gimmick a lot with my Chun; if my opponent is in the corner I can jump in on their wake up and headstomp them up to three times. Most people don’t know how to block this as it does not cross up (ever), so since they don’t know, it’s a gimmick.
HOWEVER.
Once they understand the gimmick, I can start mindgaming them with it. If I am headstomping someone in the corner and they are still trying to block, at any time after the first or second headstomp I can instead decide to cross them up. I can actually do this after the third headstomp as well, but at that point it almost has to cross-up. When I start doing this, I am mindgaming them because they don’t know when to block, and either need really good reactions or good guessing.
No it doesnt sound like a preschool version of what the real discussion is about, it is an example of a gimmick that happened and I shared the story to provide further insight to the nature of gimmicks, since blatantly reiterating the same things that have already been said in the thread many times has no use. I thought it was a good example because its extremely simple.
Grow up.
NO shut up you don’t know what mindgames are, I know what mindgames are!!!
A gimmick is a trick that can catch someone by surprise because they most likely wouldn’t be conditioned to react to it in the correct way, the first time. Maybe the second time. Maybe ever. If it works the first time, it’s a mind game. If it fails, it’s a gimmick that went awry.
I don’t need to know anything about the guy before I try out a gimmick. All I need to do is try it and see if it works. Rely on the novelty of the gimmick to protect me from being punished or from being punished as hard as I could have been.
A mind game is something to try after you have gotten to know the opponent. A fight is like a conversation… any random thing can happen at the start of a match and then you both go in a direction with it. You notice things about the other guy, tell him he is pretty, buy him a drink, get him to give you a handjob, GGPO, then never call him again.
A gimmick is like putting a roofie in his drink. A mind game is all about charm.
Edit: Rape, Gimmick, Mindgame…
Putting a roofie in his drink is rape. Using the same cheesy pick up line is a gimmick.
The entire game of sf4 is wait and bait. Do a single move, poke or special and wait for your opponent to abuse a 14 frame reversal window. Don’t think because you hit 1 mixup that you are safe from a 14 frame reversal window… because you aren’t.
There are no gimmicks or mind games, just how well you can abuse the game. Getting beat down, mash anything you think might work. Getting mixed up, do the same. It’s more or less spray and pray.
Mindgame: being every bit as aware of your actions in a match as you are of the other person’s and basing what you do in the future on those criteria. Has everything to do with everything.
Gimmick: exact opposite. Has nothing to do with anything. Unless you play online, then it magically becomes worth basing your entire gameplan on.
Rofl, this post makes sense and doesn’t make sense, all at the same time.
I disagree, most high level tournament matches of any fighting game ever made will have gimmicks, many lower tiers with weak options need them to get anywhere and they help bad match ups as the strategy for low-tier or disadvantaged is play the opponent and there is no better way to do that than being harder to read while throwing crazy stuff at them at the same time but they won’t consistently win matches or those match ups would become even. Many Gimmicks are cheap and cheap is good, but cheap with better moves is much better. Actually you need to be able to read your opponent to make anything work, especially gimmicks.
Mind games is knowing all your characters options and counters and how it stacks up against all your opponents character options and how your opponent is playing so you can read him, think it’s called Yomi. If you can read your opponent you can safely counter, usually. If you guess wrong you should get punished hard usually. There are constant mind games in every situation in a match.
Gimmicks, Parlor Tricks, or Shenanigans are usually just quick setups to catch or throw your opponent off guard and get damage and are always part of the mind game do to being one of your or the opponents options in a situation and make mind games more complex usually but are usually not the safest/solid options to use but can be. Calculate the risk vs. reward and go for them just like every jump, they shouldn’t be a core game plan as it would be hard to use them that way and your opponent would figure you out but they can enhance a core game plan and most are developed and used by good players. EDIT: IMO Gimmicks should usually be the least expected option out of a specific situation in the mind game to catch the opponent off guard or to bait.
Examples of gimmicks would be like resets which happen often in combos when you give up guaranteed damage to do something else. Another would be in SSf4 if you reset someone in air you can often cross under which happens a lot in juggles, air-to-air and is gimmicky but unless you are looking for it is hard to deal with and leads to another combo and often times you can do a fake cross up or cross under. Throwing out ultra out on wake up would just be a reversal probably not be real gimmicky if your opponent attacked you the last 5 times on wake up it would be a mind game where you read him but empty jump in and then ultra when most people auto tech throws would be a gimmick to catch them off guard and make you harder to read. Or you do something insane while your opponent is waking up like dash forward twice and block or do something that looks unsafe but isn’t in a certain situation. Ryu walk up EX Tatsu is kind of gimmicky. C. Viper shouldn’t be able to use any moves because she they are slow and easy to react to, however she has a feint which is a gimmick and it slows your opponents reaction time by adding more stimuli and may make them do something unsafe. If Ryu is chucking plasma from jump in range it is unsafe so he has a gimmick like C. Viper where he uses a normal just like C. Viper so you react to it like a fireball and he can punish and that is a gimmick. All characters have something like this that they use sometimes and there are many more. Empty jump into a low attack would be a gimmick, if it’s blocked go for a throw for another old school gimmick that shouldn’t work so well do to a 10 frame tech window and option select unless your playing someone on the opposite side of the world.