After adjusting to the LP-GH change. id like to write down what really “needs” to change, in order to make Zangief a good version of himself right now.
EX-GH Needs to be +2 on hit. A reversal normal THROW or a reversal 3frame Button will Beat or Trade(poke) 100% of the time vs. ANything Zangief does EXCEPT for frametight SPD or U1. I really feel that we should not need to guess wether or not we will be thrown out of our c.lp is legit after we use bar to get in with EX-GH.
EX-GH Needs to travel like it did in v.103.
MP-GH needs to have 2 startup frames removed so that we are not put in the same situation as with EX-GH after we land an SPD and Greenhand back.
If a poke connects, I feel that LP-GH should connect regardless of range. Sort of like a homing missile :3
Make 1hit EX-GH safe on hit(through fireball.) or atleast, not full punishable.
Also something I find strange: If they want us to use LP-GH to cancle out fireballs, why have they not done something about the recovery IF it hits a FIREBALL? Right now you get punished if you do it sweep or combo.
I’d simply be happy with the old jab gh but keep the post hit range as it is now. I think that’s a fair compromise. Also you’re right about ex.gh hitting once, this is complete bs. We should not get fully punished if we react to projectiles. Makes no sense at all. Just give us these 2 changes and I’m more than satisfied but we all know it won’t happen. If there is a future patch Im sure they’ll find more ways to make Gief worse.
If you hit the closer EXGH alpha, you have to throw with:
Flying Power Bomb (FPB) - 1 frame link
*Will beat their regular throw and 3 frame normal (Check my research thread below)
Atomic Suplex (AS) - 2 frame link
Regular Throw for safety
You have LESS risk and MORE post positioning reward. So the odds are MUCH better
If you hit with the far EXGH beta, you will play as AE2012 Zangief
…
I feel like that SPD-LPGH is dead. Because there is no game, danger or threat. Anything right after is at best a gimmick.
I feel close MK buff is ALMOST useless, situational and risky.
The game after a 2" LPGH alpha is very weak.
If they block, you can LP SPD
If they 3 frame normal, they will beat your LP SPD *But you can whiff punish their attack with HP SPD
If they back dash, you can GH
If they jump back, there is no real answer except U2
**I think LPGH should be +1 or 0 on hit ** Considering the pushback. So we can LP SPD 3 frame normals
**Close Standing LK needs more range **to be truly amazing. It should never whiff.
MPGH to be -4 on hit. That would be amazing.
Yes. I was thinking the same thing. Make a fireball banish, FADC/Red Focus Cancellable. So you can do 3 EX Bar fireball banish - Red Focus Combos. Could be too strong? Or at least, give a little meter for an absorb.
But right now, only if you banish perfectly, can you do an SPD. If ONLY we can only get +2 more frames after the banish.
The limitation of EXGH. Either be closer or kara. Or wait a little and don’t EXGH too quickly. It is fucking annoying, especially against the reach of Sagat’s Tiger hurt box.
I think from Veggey’s list, 4 is the only one Gief really needs IMO. Since he gets less mixup opportunities due to the new pushback on LPGH, it’s become the common strategy (that I correctly predicted back then ^_^) to conserve meter for the red focus combo. But that can be difficult when you’re forced to use EXGH because of the gimped range on LPGH. It should always reach.
I also think he should get his jab SPD range from AE back. Maybe not the 2012 range, but I really don’t think it needs to be shorter than it was in vanilla.
Less scaling on his RFC’s into atomic suplex/U1 would be nice. Only the shortest hit confirms and ex gh xxx RFC produce the least amount of scaling. The positioning atomic suplex gives us is really nice, but sometimes it feels like Gief is investing his whole bar on something that isn’t a guarantee (The mixup following atomic suplex.) unlike other characters that get to cash in damage immediately with their red focus combos.
tbh, the only thing Gief needs back is his LP GH range…outside of that, the character is fine. Give it more recovery on whiff and block for all I care. Keep the push back.
The reality is, LP GH was his best OS, a great whiff punish tool and a great punish option. So many of his bad matches became more even when he could LP GH stuff like Akuma’s sweep or Q-Bomb.
Even a full RFC combo from Gief does good damage, I think. And even then, I think the almost guaranteed corner carry makes it good enough. It’s a really bad situation for the opponent to lose 300+ life and then end up in the corner with Gief in his face. Even Sagat doesn’t want any of that shit.
Version 1.04 was only a band aid fix. We never have been fully compensated in terms of the dynamics of EXGH (no knockdown)/LP SPD range/LPGH speed
Whilst we can no longer do LPGH “teleport” SPD. We could do light xx whiff LPGH into SPD. Essentially, as gimmicky as they come. With a 15 frame gap, but just enough to reach visual reaction time.
Not sure which characters can cash in immediately. But I feel, the biggest reward off of Red Focus is to land the Ultra - THE MOST DAMAGING MOVE THAT COUNTS AS ONE SINGLE MOVE. For other characters, it certainly is questionable to Red Focus Combo without having the Ultra stocked. But if you use U2 Zangief, no Ultra ender is the reality
My view on the use of the Red Focus Combo, is purely to win the round, or get within ONE mix-up to KO. Outside of those hours, its strictly EXGH only. And the forcing stand on EXGH is simply amazing (outside of FA hitting crouching opponents!), because no matter where they are, or what they are doing. You hit them with the EXGH, and its GO time. The comeback potential is HUGE, and you WILL WIN rounds and matches where IT MATTERS.
I view that you have to play in a way that conserves EX meter, unless you must spend EX bars on EXGH, if they have a projectile. This might mean, playing footsies with second rate tools, like far MK instead of far LK, far MP instead of Far LP. Making use of the LPGH in footsies whenever you can.
Hey evans, alelocoo here.
The lp gh teleport into lp spd is still pretty doable, you just need to time it and make sure your lp spd is kara, otherwise it wont work. Edit: Actually i think that if pulled out perfectly, is even better than the previous version because the lp gh leaves you so far from the opponent that the lp spd after that is even more unexpected.
And about red focus into u2, personally, i use it very often.
But yea, i agree with the lp gh distance… They should set it as something in between the good version (vanilla usf4) and the one that we have now. Its kinda useless now and it was a great tool. On the bright side, the fact that the opponent has to deal with two different gh distances, is good (at least on low level play… I dont imagine bonchan whiffin a tigger uppercut because he confused the gh distances).
sweep or combo.