What to do after knockdown?

Classic Fighting Games Super Street Fighter II Turbo
1

My main are O.sagat, ryu, ken, n dic.

After i score a knockdown i know usually ur supposed to press the advantage and pressure them into the corner with a meaty on wakeup however for me this is easier said then done.

With sagat i’m most adept to zone from the corner so if i score a knockdown usually i throw out fb’s on their wakeup and then try to keep them pinned down from across the screen. Although i like to play more rushdown then turtle or zone i can’t be aggressive with sagat cuz if i knock them into the corner any move other then a fb that i stick out on their wakeup gets reversed and i’m the one who’s knocked down.

With ryu when i score a knockdown i try to get close n do overhead into c.rh but at least half the time my overhead gets reversed same goes for when i do dics overhead.

With ken on knockdown i usually go for cr.mp or jab DP and it’s a bit easier for me to land my meaties as ken (maybe these moves have good priority? not sure) but i still get reversed at least half the time.

It’s easiest with dic cuz i can safely stick out st.mk, cr.mk into rh kneepress n then i wait or just go into throw.

I’m not familiar with how to do safe jumps (correct me if i’m wrong but it’s a way of jumping in without getting reversed right?) but i’m sure learning it would help me get reversed less after i score knockdown n i appreciate any help i get.

2

With O.Sagat, depending on the distance between you and the opponent who’s knocked down, you can tiger knee once or twice to get closer, and then resume with a slow fireball that hits them on wakeup. This is a safe and valid tactic to get in the perfect zoning distance to apply more pressure. Valle’s O.Sagat or even CE Sagat, and Yaya’s N.Sagat are good examples. You can also get in their face with a couple of standing shorts combo’d into fireballs.

With Ryu, try to be less predictable. This isn’t 3S with 50/50 guessing games on wakeup. If you try that overhead just semi-often, they WILL predict it and reversal. The overhead is great, but use it in fewer than 1/5 opportunities. Also, I’d recommend saving it for certain occasions where you really do have a guessing game (e.g. after unloading a super from close range, you can low forward OR you can overhead), and/or against certain charge characters like Boxer. But mainly stick to solid percentage stuff like cr+roundhouse into fb, or simply fb. A less conservative option is to of course jump in, but you need to have good timing for this to be safe. I believe NKI has a safe-jump tutorial floating around somewhere …

Ken can try all sorts of mixups, starting with low short ticks into throws, or cr.rh into fb etc. Standard stuff really. You shouldn’t be fearing their reversal that much. An opponent who is that trigger-happy for the reversal is probably not good, is predictable, and doesn’t understand sound strategy.
… But it is hella annoying playing with lag online and eating a second DP when you try to punish the first. :rofl:

3

In Ryu’s and Ken’s case, just do a cross-up. It’s something very basic yet it’s one of the best mix-up tools, for example Vega (Claw). His whole pressure is about cross-ups, either fake or real ones, making the opponent guess which way to block or to reverse on wake-up, though most people don’t even try to reverse when facing Vega because he won’t get hit anyway-he’s fast.
High level play in Super Turbo is all about such mindgames.

After crossing up you can go for a tick throw or a combo (if it hits).

When using Sagat the best way to keep your opponent pressured is his Low Tiger. He recovers damn fast and it prevents your opponent from doing anything BUT to block.

That’s right. Safe jumps-ins are safe because, even if your opponent reverses perfectly you won’t get anti-aired; you’ll land savely in block stance while your opponent is whiffing his Dragon Punch. [media=youtube]t8dD3K2_Pz4&feature=related"[/media] might help.

4

You can do lots of things:

-Meaty fireball and then pressure with pokes into grab/cross-up/more pokes/etc.
-Cross-up into pokes/grab etc.
-You can go for an air or ground safe meaties (check the safe meaty topic) and then go into high/low games (overhead with ryu) and into shit I just listed
-You could also do nothing and wait for them to reverse and then punish

Lots of stuff.

5

With Sagat you should generally continue with the fireball zoning. Every once in awhile you can try to crossover with the tiger knee but you need the right distancing to do it correctly. Usually you can go for a TN crossover after a small TU hit. Generally you will need to do two TN to crossover your opponent.

6

this is a simple guideline that applies to every char

vs scrubs use meaty ground moves

vs pros use safe jumpins or crossups

OCCASIONALLY vs pros use meaty ground moves to bait them into reversal if they arent trying

7

What Graham said, but also keep in mind that in some matches, all you want to do simply keep the opponent OUT.

For example, if Ryu knocks down Honda, best thing to do is a simple meaty Jab fireball from half screen.

For most of O.Sagat’s matches, I think his best option is meaty Short Tiger.

8

I know there is a Sim thread, but I believe the answer for this question belongs here.

True or False, does Sim’s crouching close forward, if timed properly from the correct distance, stuff reversals? If not what about his c.cl.RH.

As always, thanks in advance.

The only character that I will consistently try meaty normal attacks against is Sim because his only reversal is the tele and just in case someone doesn’t know, the tele doesn’t do any damage.

I almost never try meaties against Honda, T.hawk, Gief, or Boxer. All of these characters, instead of just pulling off a reversals, also have massive damage throws/ command throws that can become traps or loops.

I think everybody who has played this game has tried a safe jump-in against these guys just to find that these guys have very interesting ways of damaging your character, blocking or not.

A good example is in NKI’s shenanigans vid: Fei attempts a flame kick that would have hit Gief in the back, but instead gets hooked up with a FAB. It wasn’t a wake up situation, but that is the kind of crap that can and will happen in wake ups.

9

Graham’s words are to be heeded, and are very true. It’s the kind of thing I need to remember and add to my game.

Other than walldives (which are his best options on their wakeup most of the time), does Vega have anything that can be used for a safe jump? I believe j.RH crosses up…

10

do you have CCC2 for PS2 or xbox?

well, anyways, check out the Sirlin tutorial; Safe Jumps are in the “Advanced” tutorial.

http://www.sirlin.net/archive/my-street-fighter-tutorial-videos-from-ccc2/

great vids for refreshing.

11

^^ I have CCC2 for ps2.

Thc for all the help guys i guess i just have to learn how to consistently safe jump though it’s not easy at all for me about half the time i jump too early n get reversed.

12

Don’t you mean ‘too late.’ If you where earily you’d would have landed and the air attack would not have hit.

13

ding!

…yeah, if you jumped too late, you get reversed.

zoolander, jumper earlier.

14

A safe jump is basically a really deep jump attack that is hits or is blocked if your opponent misses their wake up or blocks, but if they successfully reverse, you can land, block then punish.

Safe jump attacks are impossible on some (Ken jab dp, Blanka), hard on others (Ryu, Cammy, Sagat, Fei, T.Hawk, Zangief) and relatively easy on others (Guile, DeeJay, Balrog, Claw, Honda). I find it’s easiest to safe jump with light attacks, and often it gives you the most options as far as throw, combo, dp’s mix-ups go. I don’t always safe jump with jab/short though, here are some set-ups and sequences for some of the characters you mentioned:

Ryu:
If I hit my opponent with a RH hurricane kick I like to do: straight up jump RH kick, low forward xx blue fireball. This dizzies everytime because of the power of the straight up jumping RH kick. The RH hurricane puts you right next to your opponent, then you immediately jump after you land to set this up.

**If I dp my opponent’s jump attack I’ll do a fierce dp **which sets up perfectly for a cross up. I’ll do a jab dp, take a step forward then to safe jump jab into a throw, dp low forward xx red fireball mix up game for another knock down.

Another fun set up if you have your opponent grounded in the corner from a distance (say you made them land on a FB) is to throw a meaty jab FB that they stand up into and block, jump immediately upon recovery and do a RH jump kick, land and do a slide punch that whiffs into a throw. This works well every once in a while. If you delay your jump kick until the last second often times your opponent won’t block. You can condition your opponent to block high, then do an empty jump (no jump attack), then land and do low forward kick xx red FB.

Ken:
**The knee bash **sets up for an immediate jump->safe jump jab. Following the safe jump jab you can do xx air hurricane followed by a dp/throw/low rh kick/overhead mix up. The air hurricane causes hella stun so you can walk towards to set yourself up. You can further mis this up by leaving out the air hurricane kick and immediately throwing.

Ken’s jab dp sets up the same as ryu. The jab dp also sets up his cross up as well, but it takes some positioning by walking forward. Typically I hit forwrd kick a bit early as it’s more ambiguous and hits more consistently. Always jab dp for anti-air. The sacrifice in damage for strong or fierce dp isn’t worth it to set up any other tricks.

Hitting with Ken’s super sets him up perfect for a straight up jump RH kick. After I recover from the super I do one of 2 combos: straight up jump RH kick, forward xx fireball+kick OR straight up jump RH kick xx air hurricane kick, standing RH kick. Both of these combos dizzy everytime.

Dictator:
After a knockdown with a scissor kick or throw, slide with RH kick while charging then do low forward kick x 2 (with the first being meaty) xx forward or short kick scissor kick depending on the character or if they block or not. You can also mix up the second linked forward kick with a standing short xx short scissor kick. Normally meaty attacks are risky and not worth it but the fact that this combo dizzies more othern then not makes it worth while and will make your opponent think twice about reversing.

You can also jump after a knockdown with a scissor kick or throw and do jumping mk, standing short, low forward xx scissor kick. This is a 5-hit that dizzies almost everytime. If you do it deep enough, it can be a safe jump combo.

I prefer to cross up with dictator as his cross up is pretty ambiguous. I do: jumping mk, standing short x 2, low forward xx fierce psycho crushaa. This is almost a guaranteed dizzy as well.

I hope this helps-

-wes

15

i notice whenever i try and safe jump against Boxer i get grabbed almost seemingly before he is even standing again. There seems to be very few frames after he is knocked down to when he can take action after he is up again. Ill try a cross up and the timing seems correct and BANG headbutts…

16

He gets up slowly… that and his reversals hit really late making him the easiest character to safe jump against.

17

Exactly, all characters get up at different speeds (example: Sagat gets up super quick). All characters react to knock downs, holds and throws differently. Therefore some “throw loops” and knock down follow-up tricks don’t work as well or at all on certain characters. You simply have to practice against each character and know your match ups.

-wes

18

That’s interesting, I didn’t know that. That’s why some of my meaties don’t work.