What about him puts him, on most occasions, at the bottom of tier lists. How can he be improved?
Low mobility, limited mix ups, lack of a panic button to escape pressure, poor close range normals, limited ability to deal chip damage, limited ability to deal with strong keep away.
He needs and actual command grab so he can mix people up and have an option against up back. He needs a slightly better wave dash and a poke that can eat projectiles. With that he might be mid tier but a threat in the right hands.
Do you play him regardless? What are some of his strengths?
Yeah I play him point on my main team. I play him mostly because he’s my favorite comic book character and I’m a character loyalist. Every time I switch to my vanilla team or try something else I just don’t feel at home. If he’s in the game, I’m playing him!
I think he does have certain strengths, despite not being great. He’s very good at punishing and being oppressive against assists, and he does force people to change their game plan which can get you a round or maybe even two until your opponent adjusts. His snapback is a decent tool against certain power up supers like astral vision and spiral swords. It essentially let’s you avoid dealing with it for a time and continue the battle of attrition.
The way I play him now I try to tag assists and snap in bleeding characters as much as possible. Essentially win by denying victory to the other person. I think this is the style he excels at. The problem is that style isn’t the best option in this game, heavy rush down and bullet hell are more effective paths to victory.
I still think that everything to be explored from this game and all of the “bottom tier characters” is still untapped. Every character is in this game for a reason and they all have amazing stupid things to offer in a fight. It will probably take another year before some of the “worst” characters in this game are truly shown for the powerhouses they are.
hmmm i actually think ghost riders an ok character he just needs a smidge more hitstun on his J.H to make into a viable air to air so that comboing into hells embrace would be more practical, his C.l should be sped up along with his C.m almost like about 2 - 3 frames cause you only use his up close normals to punish things that S.h can’t up close, probably make heartless special cancelable so he can have a little more damage output and have a better chipping game, and maybe a new chipping move that can be counted as an anti-air.
and thats about it. i dont think he does need a mix up only for the fact that his range is retarded and giving him something like that would probably stray away from the playstyle that capcom intended for him which is keep away.all he needs really is viable way to chip people almost like chris. and he would be a more effective character but still have his very annoy the shit out of the opponent play-style.
Giving him chip is fine too. He needs something to prevent people from holding up back, because right now there’s no reason to not just block against him all day. It’s ironic because he’s meant to be this epic keep away character but his biggest weakness is people running away and playing defensively.
i mean that is true but their is only about a handful of characters who can really do that effectively and can convert it to real big damage. Which are Trish, Morrigan, Storm, Chris, Deadpool, Spiderman, Vjoe, Arthur and if they were to give him his chipping game people would not block you all day instead they would be forced to come at you. Take Deadpool and Chris for example their play styles are to zone and chip the opponent all day until they summon up the courage to come at you then. when you see them do something unsafe you punish their very souls and then put them all the way back where they started from and start the whole game plan again.
Those characters also have some very legit close range mixups. Storm has high/low, Deadpool has left/right, Spiderman has high/low, Joe has left/right, Chris has a really good throw game. To be a decent character in this game you need be able to open people up and force mistakes in a variety of ways and situations. You need options.
Yes but do any of those characters have limbs like ghost rider? No they don’t. It sounds like to me you want ghost rider who has 90% full screen normals to be able to hit you with high lows from that range is that correct? I’m sorry to say that has and never will happen in any fighting game. Never has there ever been a character with limbs like that in any fighting game who can mix up from a range that far. I’m sorry to be rude but that is the truth
No that’s not correct. I said in the first post what I think would be decent changes. I didn’t say anything about high/lows, or extending his reach.
o ok my mistake im sorry about that. but how would the command grab be if they where to give it to him?
Probably just his quarter circle back attacks but they would actually grab people. I’d guess it would be pretty similar to Skrull, doesn’t need to be super fast or anything like Wesker or even Haggar.
hmm i guess
hmm i guess.
Yeah I think a close range command grab would be just the thing Johnny needs to get off constant pressure. He does have Penance Stare but that comes with an obvious restriction. A fair input command for this grab could be :hcb:+:s: if his chain “grabs” remain blockable in the (hopefully) next update.
The use of a close range command grab could result in one of these followups:
a. Opponent falls next to GR: otg>hyper/assist/xfc/etc.
b. Opponent gets knocked back into the air (no wallbounce): :h:,:h:,:dp:+:l:,:h:,:h:, :qcb:+:l:, :qcf:+:l: xx :qcf:+:atk::atk:
c. Opponent gets knocked back into the air (wallbounce): :h:,:h:, :qcb:+:l:, :qcf:+:l: xx :qcf:+:atk::atk:
If it was the dev team’s call, I’d say they’d go with either a or c. Marvel would choose c if something badass causes the wallbounce, like Hellfire shotgun to the abdomen 8-).
I recently went into the lab with ghost rider to try things that other characters can do such as
jump cancel S into a special move like Spencer for example. Problem with that though is that none of his DP specials have the angle to reach the enemy right above you.
Has anybody found anything yet?
It’s actually a limitation of Ghost Rider, dealing with foes directly above him. Try to control their spacing more. I’ll post a video with Thor and Tron soon
What are everyones thoughts on making Ghost Rider a true magic series character? Standing/air chain could easily be moved to :f:+:h:. As long as “new” :h:cannot combo into :f:+:h:, then it shouldn’t be an overwhelming buff. What it can accomplish is tack on a slight bit more damage in combos, and make down exchanges in the air easier.
If anything Ghost Rider needs a wave dash. He is definitely not at the bottom of the barrel and is a definite force to be reckoned with. His main drawback is the lack of a wave dash. He doesn’t really need a command grab as b+H is an option select for heartless spire or the grab, which, can be comboed off of with an assist. His main weakness is diagonally straight above him. If he had a wave dash he could get under characters and swat them down with jumping h.
He’s a point character through and through. His best assists are taskmaster with horizontal arrows, doom missiles and strider vajra. Strider is good for zoning, but Ghost Rider can’t really capitalize off of him.
Umm don’t know if you know this but Ghostrider has a wave dash glitch similar to Vergil, but instead of F+H and ATK you press/or mash B+H and ATK. a very good movement technique to escape incoming pressure from Wolverine, Trish, or other air happy characters who try to get in on you in the air. Just try to use teleporters because you will get blown up badly.