I’ve tried them at length and I simply don’t like square gates, ball tops, or flimsy springs. They don’t suit my play style. I play with a Hayabusa with 4lb spring and octogate. I also have a Korean stick. Both of these options are pretty good to me but I can’t stand a stock Japanese stick. What are these “advantages” you’re on about? Why are there high-level players in T7 using both Japanese and Korean parts, if one kind of stick is objectively better than another?
And they’re (we’re) not knockin,’ so that should tell ya something.
Korean sticks are really sui generis. The gummy feel of a Myeongshin Fanta is not that much like either a Japanese or an American stick.
Not really. People aren’t beating down the doors for bowler hats, but it’s not like something objectively superior has replaced them; they’re just out of style.
What? Every hat is superior to a bowler!
…unless of course you’re Charlie Chaplin, Laurel & Hardy, Curly Howard… or John Cleese.
Sounds like for you the only Japanese Joystick you might be happy with is the Sanwa JLW and the Seimitsu LS-40. The JLW is the one of the few Japanese sticks that has a round gate option.
I have a Kowal octagonal gate for my Hayabusa (it’s for JLF but it fits mine) and I’m pretty happy with it. Honestly by the time you’re replacing the top, actuator, gate, and spring, I’m not sure how much sense it makes to even call it “Hayabusa” anymore, but I’m rolling with octogate, bat top, oversized actuator, and 4lb spring, and it’s a setup I’m actually pretty happy with. I also have Crown buttons, which remind me a bit of Happ Competition buttons.
I’d like a MAS stick, or something like that, but they’re hard to find, expensive, and pretty bulky to actually carry to events.
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To me even with all the changes, the stick feel exactly the same to me.
The Hayabusa is just a JLF Clone
That is true.
@allfightsticks makes cases that can accommodate American style parts. They’re not overly bulky (unless you order it that way, as there are various case sizes available). They’re also extremely durable. Check them out at allfightsticks.com or hit up their Facebook page. The owner is very communicative with FB messenger. Tell Aaron what you want and he can make it happen. He did for me…twice 
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Even if none of that stuff happened with Happ and IL, and Happ parts retained their high-quality to this day, Japanese style parts would have still inevitably caught on for all the reasons i mentioned. Like superior ergonomics and comfort.
I remember when Japanese stuff started to hit the scene, Happ was the dominant standard for 25+ years and there was a good bit of pushback by those players that never touched a Sanwa. It wasn’t long though, as more and more players tried japanese style, that it caught on and many never looked back. It’s not merely “preference”. You could make a legit case about all the design advantages that stuff like the JLF has over the Happ competition.
We only played on Happ stuff for so long in the early years of the arcade heyday, because we weren’t aware of anything better. Now touching a Happ set-up is like playing with Caveman controls. Hard to believe we used this shit for so long.
Sigh…
And like I said too: “it’s all personal preference.”
People who prefer either American or Korean parts for their “superior ergonomics and comfort” are laughing at your statement. Even people who openly acknowledge that all people are entitled their own opinions on things are laughing at your statement. I hate American parts and only use Japanese parts on my sticks…
And even I’M laughing at you.
Opinions are like assholes. Everyone’s got one. Please don’t wave yours around like it’s the only one that matters. It stinks up the place.
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Ultimately it is personal preference for why someone likes one style of parts over the other.
The point i’m trying to make is that Japanese style parts also have legit and provable design advantages to their use, BEYOND mere preference. And that it is these advantages in their design over U.S style, that also played a significant role in their adoption.
The ONLY reason why Japanese arcade parts were adopted en masse was due to a hole in the market left by the simultaneous twilighting of western arcades and a reduction in quality of their (American) associated arcade parts. The market strain on profits and a lessened demand allowed Suzo to gobble up Happ, and the continued strain allowed Suzo to create reproductions of lesser quality with limited impact to them as a whole.
Meanwhile, the stage was set to allow the West—a market with a later reemergence of popularity of fighting games—to be taken over by another contender. That’s also why you hear all this bullshit about “Sanwa-THIS” and “Sanwa-THAT” all over the internet…ESPECIALLY on YouTube these days. That scenario unfolded over here with Mad Catz in 2008. They chose Sanwa Denshi as their main supplier. They sold sticks in the West AT VOLUME, and pumped major marketing dollars into promoting Sanwa as the “real deal.”
If Seimitsu signed that deal with Mad Catz, you might not have even declared the JLF and OBSF the bread and butter choice that you did earlier in this very thread.
All this was, was “right place at the right time,” and marketing BS/$$. That’s it. Really it is. All that (and public influence trickling down via word of mouth and websites like this) solidified Japanese parts (particularly Sanwa) as the mainstay of arcade stick usage and preference.
Your declarations of Japanese arcade parts’ “provable design advantages to their use” argument is flawed due to the fact that any talented (or highly motivated) human can—with a varying amount of time, focus and practice—adapt to a high level of gaming compitency on any form of controller schema.
If I could incessantly whoop your ass in a long list of fighting games, using only a pink, squishy, heart-shaped hitbox made of all Samducksa buttons—would that make those parts more ergonomic and comfortable? No!
If I paid major bucks to ensure over a long period of time that all top-level fighting game competitors tried, used, and eventually consistently won with (while publicly endorsing) that abomination—you’d bet your ass you’d be loving it up here like the emperor did his “new clothes.”
Now seriously… screw this thread. I need sleep.
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You keep saying there are objective reasons that the Japanese parts are better. Would you care to explain what they are?
I agree with all of this, but I think you’re too quick to discount the “I want to use what Daigo uses” thing. The interest in Korean levers among Tekken players/Infiltration fans didn’t have a huge commercial project behind it in the vein MadCatz TE sticks.
I am a big fan of Samducksa buttons though.
First off, chill out. lol. You seem to have a hard time with others disagreeing with you.
Secondly, japanese style parts would have taken over no matter what. It was just a matter of time. Happ was only the dominent standard for so long due to market ignorance. It was all we knew and they took advantage of that.
Third, i’ve played on Semitzu parts. Not bad. Both Semitzu, as well as Sanwa, are MUCH more preferable over Happ/U.S style.
Fourth, regarding your foolish comment with the Pink hitbox, you keep missing he point. I’m not talking about individual player skill, i’m talking about which parts are Designed BETTER.
Let’s use racing as an example. Take your average driver and put them into a souped up, professionally designed racecar. Then take a Pro experienced driver and put them behind the wheel of a conventional, mass produced vehical, like a Nissan Sentra. Then have them race on a rally trail.
Obviously the pro racecar driver is going to win because of his experience and skill. That does’nt mesn the shitty Nissan Sentra he was driving is a good option or viable alternative to a proper machine built for racing performence.
Same for HAPP IL Vs Sanwa. Sure someone like Daigo could wreck an average player with X-Arcade quality bootleg Happ parts but, that does’nt mean he’s using an ideal set-up.
Edit: No offense to Nissan Sentra owners here lol. I once owned Sentra and it was an excellent “Point A to B” vehical.
I can’t help but notice you still have not detailed what exactly about the Japanese parts makes them so much better. Looking at top 8 tournaments around the world you’re going to see some variety of devices.
I can tell you what I don’t like about stock Japanese-style sticks. You need to play with a gingerly, mostly finger-based style. If you use your arm and hit the stick hard to dash, you’re going to jump or duck. If you like to push the stick all the way over and rotate it for circular motions, you’ll get stuck on the corners. Return to neutral is more difficult than with a device with more resistance. Of course I could eventually get used to that, if I were determined, but I don’t really see why I should have to totally relearn how to play, when I could just buy parts I like better.
The talk about how these parts are more ergonomic or just plain better that you keep repeating isn’t, as far as I can tell, substantiated by anything objective.
Also, if you were looking into this in like 2004 or so, you would have found people were aware of Japanese parts but pretty evenly split between Happ and Sanwa camps. There was more than just ignorance of the alternatives going on.
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I could write an essay about why Japanese style is better but, since i know you haven’t spent much time with Japanese parts, most of my points would be lost on you.
The condensed cliffnotes version is basically:
Ball top > Bat Top. Balltop for grip is so much more natural, comfortable, and intuitive. They look cooler too, imo.
The subtle genius of Square Gate > Happ’s circular nothingness(No gate). Hell, the fact that japanese sticks have a Gate while Happ’s design seemed blissfully ignorant of such things speaks volumes.
Light JLF Spring > The huge, tough as nails springs that Happ used. A spring should only be strong enough to reliably return to center each time without issue. You should only need the strength of your fingers&wrist to manipulate the stick. When you must engage your friggin’ forearm muscles to operate the stick effectively? That’s a sign that it’s too much.
Size: The various advantages of having low profile parts, along with the lighter springs, mean japanese parts are a lot more flexible in how they can be used. Like having compact sticks if you want. While Happ’s ginormous and clunky parts design, and heavyass springs, practically DEMAND a Large and Heavy enclosure for effective use. An arcade stick shouldn’t have to be the size of a ice chest damnit.
OBSF-30 Vs Happ Competition Buttons: Happ’s buttons suffer from pretty much the same issues as the sticks. Being needlessly large and clunky, requiring a lot of room in a case to house them. As well as requiring more force and travel, than what should be needed to activate them. While Sanwa buttons are juuuuuust the right size, comfortable, compact, effective, and minimal travel to actuate.
I could go on but that’s enough. You just need to spend more time with these parts, and stop assuming that everyone loves Sanwa simply because “It’s what Daigo uses” or whatever.
I’ll never go back to U.S style.
As a guy whose initial custom stick builds were all Happ parts, and moved over to Japanese parts, I personally prefer Japanese-style parts.
I do agree with most of the post, but did want to add my 2 cents:
A balltop allows for a wider variety of grips, and by that logic CAN be more comfortable depending on how you hold it, but I don’t think it’s black and white on this. Plus, Sanwa makes bat-tops for their sticks, so this isn’t really necessarily strictly a “US-style vs JP-style” aspect.
Agreed. I love me my square gates, and I do think that conceptually, it does provide more advantages to the player than a circular restrictor (which essentially what Happ’s sticks are limited to).
Agreed. I do feel that US-style sticks take too much effort to move quickly and efficiently.
I fully agree that the smaller/slimmer JP parts make them more versatile; I love building slim arcade sticks.
However, I don’t feel that this should knock down US-style parts; yes, they require a larger enclosure, but I feel that this has little bearing on the actual functionality aspect of the stick/buttons once already installed.
While I do agree that Happ Competition buttons are big, cluncky, deep, and require a lot of force to activate; I don’t necessarily agree that Sanwa buttons are as perfect as you feel that they are. To a lot of people (myself included), Sanwas are too light, and don’t suit a play style where one would rest their fingers on the button plungers.
tl;dr
While I personally use JP parts in my personal day-to-day sticks, and I agree that JP parts were designed by considering many aspects of gameplay (travel distances and engage forces) that US-style parts did not (which were mostly designed to be durable and withstand beatings in arcades), I don’t feel that Sanwa parts are truly as perfect as some feel that they are.
So yes, on paper, and even in practice, Sanwa parts are “better” than Happ parts. But they might not be right for everyone.
Hence why all my sticks all have Seimitsu parts.
It’s really infuriating that you keep telling me you “know” I have hardly used Japanese parts when I keep telling you that isn’t true. I’ve tried them. I used an unmodified HRAP4Kai for at least 70 or 80 hours. I don’t like them. And your arguments essentially amount to telling me what the differences are and then blithely asserting that that’s better. For instance, you say “you should only need the strength of your fingers and wrists to manipulate the stick.” Why? What makes that better? Surely you’d agree that a heavier spring makes it easier to pull of WS moves in Tekken, or avoid jumping when you meant to sidestep? Any honest and considered comparison, I think, would have to admit that’s an advantage of a heavier spring. Why is it better to have buttons that get pressed if you breathe on them? Do you really find pressing a Crown or Happ button onerous?
Happ sticks aren’t designed in a way that’s “blissfully ignorant” of gates; they don’t need a gate to hold the switches in place or prevent the stick from traveling too far because they’re designed differently – just like a Korean stick doesn’t need a gate because it’s got a collar. The square gate, as I mentioned, has disadvantages, like accidental diagonals and more difficult quarter-circle motions. And “subtle genius”? Dude, they rotated the gate from a diamond design that was meant to prevent diagonal presses in four-way games. Nobody, at the time that design was made, was thinking about competitive fighting games. I could see how it might be useful to someone in SF playing a charge character, for instance, but it has other disadvantages – you don’t have to worry about all the admonitions not to ride the gate if you use a round gate or equivalent design.
If it really has nothing to do with fashion, why is there a massive thread on this forum about Korean parts, which in many ways are more like American ones than Japanese ones? Do you think everyone in that thread interested in and posting about those parts simply hasn’t tried Sanwa?
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