As someone else already pointed out the tips you get in such a tutorial probably suck. Not on purpose, but in most games the stuff that’s found is usually so superior to what the developers know/intend. Hell a lot of the stuff on the BB dvd was obsolete shortly after it hit. Now you have people who think they know what they’re doing because “i can do all the trials/tutorial combo’s/whatever” but really they’re just another type of scrub. More accomplished maybe, but still know nothing about the core game.
Money. Games take time to develop, and honestly even if you get one hardcore gamer because he happened to look through your tutorial, great, only a couple thousand more to justify the amount of time and money you probably spent to implement it. It’s nice to have but the number of people who even fucking care that there’s cool stuff to be done just isn’t enough to justify spending the time to impliment it. Yeah EVO gets awesome attendance, but it’s a pretty small portion of the total gaming market, hell and even smaller portion of the number of people who’ve probably purchased fighters. In a lot of ways we’re pretty fucking lucky they even care if their games are balanced(or rather are lucky fighters fell off the scene and now require a hardcore market to stay afloat) because there’s absolutely nothing otherwise to stop them from making it look as flashy as possible and rake in some cash. I guess you could say DLC gives some reason for them to care about people who stick around, but at the end of the day people make games to make money, and while there are cool devs out there and what not, that doesn’t mean that large portions of the gaming market aren’t going to give a damn about appeasing the extremely small niche hardcore gaming crowd when they can give a guy some guys and a spacesuit and make a hell of a lot more.
Well, they do appear to have originally been an unintended mechanic, but just sort of incorporated into main game later on because people seemed to like them and they did interesting shit. Not to mention that I do think a lot of self styled hardcore players would throw a fit if they removed or made them easier to input, because of some misguided idea that a game can’t be entertaining to watch or play, or viable in a competitive setting if it doesn’t have some odd execution hurdles in it, 1-frames just being another one of those
Highly HIGHLY doubt that considering that would mean a shockingly large number of people are running around boisterously celebrating rape and child molestation in their local communities. If you believe that you’re in the extreme minority. I don’t know what else to say other than “you’re wrong.”
You’re confusing me. You basically told me I’m wrong in the first two words and then go on to agree with me in the rest of the paragraph. Like you said, people don’t toss around racial slurs in an arcade nearly as much as on Xbox Live. How you can take that evidence and deny that there’s a difference between face to face vs. online relations confounds me. Unless you’re really that sensitive to the competitive ribbing that goes on in arcades and consider it equal to the racial and ethnic slurs that get shouted over people’s headsets.
Oh, I also forgot that what can I say… The casual appealing method is something that happens in all of the gaming genres really. Actually, I can even say that the FG genre is one of the only genres that didn’t suffer that heavily from casual gaming being the way [Look at FPS for example]
Only way you can do something against it?
Make the casual gaming disappear by making the casuals understand they fuck up games [lol]
Show the casuals that come and play toned down games some of the hardcore games. You got some millions of people who played SF IV. Even if you can get 1% of them to come and try other SFs you can even multiply that game’s scene. Not all of those who played and loved SF IV are guys who only want a win button in their game and actually want to have a challenge sometimes [Especially the guys who got back to SF IV after they played SF2 years ago in the arcades]. You can argue if SF IV is a good series or not, but you can’t disagree it didn’t help the fighting games scene, bringing tons of new players, and now we hear about FGs making a comeback almost every week if not every day
Make the companies at least understand what applying to casuals is actually APPLYING TO CASUALS. If they actually knew that SF IV would’ve been a totally different game
@Eji 1st point - Of course every fighting game [Even some of the shitty/barely played ones] gets to be played totally/partly different of what the creators intended to. However, 99% of those stuff apply to high level play anyways. Most of the things found on MvC2 for example requires high level of play anyways. The tuts still teach you the basics, someone who is on a low level needs to learn them, and everyone needs to learn the basics before he can abuse them
p.s. - I personally think that the ultra system from SF IV isn’t exactly a “casual magnet” feature, more like a “oh fuck we created the Focus system how are we gonna make people use it” actually
I hate how people say SF4 is “noob friendly” and “casual friendly”. It may be more beginner friendly than older SF games, but it’s still not easy to pick up AT ALL.
I’ve had several friends come over to play who wanted to just pick up a controller and play, and after I explained they’d need to at least take a few minutes to pick up how to execute a few moves, and then after trying and realizing it was gonna take a lot longer than that to do it consistently, they promptly said “Let’s play Tekken!”, because at least there they could mash out and possibly win a few. SF4 is easily one of the least beginner friendly modern fighters out there even though execution has been made a lot easier (note the word MODERN, it is much friendlier than a lot of older games).
Now I suppose I can give up the “casual friendly” argument, as if a casual player who plays let’s say an hour a day spends the first 3 or 4 days actually trying to learn some moves then they might enjoy it, but if they don’t they most definitely will not. And the thing is, a lot of casuals who don’t have/play Live/PSN, or don’t have friends who also play, will never figure out what training mode is there for, they’ll just unsuccessfully mash single punches in kicks for ever. But regardless, it is NOT in any way beginner friendly, you can’t just pick it up and magically win a round here and there by mashing unless you’re playing with somebody who’s done the same.
Tutorials dont need to be about high level play to be usefull specially to someone who is completly new to fighting games.
Picture this, Instead of the usual command menu you have one like in 3d fighters that shows you a demo of the move, a demo you can analyze frame by frame with hit box display on. The movelist would include all normals, special and supers.
I remember I was like this back in the day when I was still a kid but I can’t believe grown ups struggle with this nowdays
I guess experience is a big part of fighting games and with a generation of light users who demand even more easy games, fighting games are condemn to disappear
I think its laziness on the developers side to make the game more casual friendly by lowering the execution barrier and taking things like parries out. It is possible to bridge the gap between casual and pro players, but it obviously takes work. I mean look at strategy games like SC they do it with tutorials, etc.
Also another problem with appealing too much to the casual crowd is you kill the middle crowd somewhat, and the middle crowd usually vouches for the game a lot more than the casual crowd (middle crowd would be people who play it a lot but rarely enter tourneys and aren’t prob skilled enough too). I think it may also deter these people from even trying to reach pro levels, but who knows.
Have you ever, ever, EVER even met a game designer? Like…a real one. Not the ones that you made up. Though when it comes to this entire thread, you haven’t really said anything based in fact.
You are so god damn stupid. Are your friends 8 years old? Even when I was 8 I was willing to learn how to do basic shit like special moves in fighting games.
How the fuck does what my friends say make ME stupid you ignorant fuck? I’ve spent countless hours learning to play this game because I enjoy it and am willing to spend the time, and I’m not a complete beginner to fighting games.
My friends, however, have not played video games for a large portion of their lives like I have, and it’s not easy for them to pick things up. Think about it like you’d never played a fighting game before, would you want to sit around just pressing buttons trying to get one or two moves down properly for a good 10-15 minutes before you can somewhat consistently do them, when you play the game maybe an hour every other week, or would you want to play a game you just jump into and have fun?
Some people don’t see games as something competitive, they’re just a pastime, and therefore should be something they can pick up once in awhile and just have fun, being able to play right away but improving over time. Why would somebody like this EVER want to literally WORK to improve in a game they will rarely play (these guys don’t have their own 360s/PS3s, they just played a couple times at my place), when they could gradually improve playing a different game?
It amazes me how ignorant some people on this forum are. And for your information, the friends I was speaking of range from the age of 19-23. This isn’t all my friends, just the small group that doesn’t play games on a regular basis, the ones who do play on a regular basis are perfectly happy to do a little work to get good. And this just proves my point that the game is NOT beginner/casual friendly. A beginner friendly game is something you can pick up, read the controls over, and learn as you go playing it, which is not at all SF4. A good example of a beginner friendly game would be pretty much any sports game, even Madden games are pretty easy to pick up. Fighting games in general can require a little work, with the exception of things like Soul Calibur where you can mash and be completely succesful.
You’re stupid. You’re trying to argue that SF4 isn’t casual friendly. Learning QCF, QCB, and DP (DF, D, DF with SF4), and charge motions is not something that takes hours to learn. And 10-15 minutes is a very short amount of time, your friends/colleagues must have incredibly short attention spans. Honestly, what is so hard about rolling your thumb across a directional pad?
Yes, it does take hours to learn, and even then it does not come out reliably at all, I have seen that on numerous occasions. Obviously you have never played with someone really new to fighting games.
Maybe to someone who isn’t a fighting game player, everyone on srk seems hardcore, but maybe to someone else who’s played hundreds of thousands of matches, everyone on srk seems casual… Who gets to set the line?
Err… For example, IceFrog, the one who creates the current DotA maps, is someone who admitted to be barely playing his own game [Well technically he continued it from someone else but you get the point]