What is the greatest SF game of all time

Fulaani · November 16, 2009, 3:52pm

well the reasons people dislike it has very little to do with character balance and a lot to do with the core mechanics of the game. Yet in SSF4 it seems like everything they’re changing has to do with character balance and adding new characters in.

None of that will actually change how the game is played. So personally I have little hope.

Throughout the iteration of SFII they added stuff like reversals and throw teching that drastically changed the core game-play aside from tweaking move properties. I have 0 experience with the sf3 series but from reading they changed a bunch of mechanics together with changing character balance.

I might be proven wrong but as it goes now I don’t think the “SF4 is only the first iteration” argument works because it doesn’t seem like the core game play will change.

ilitirit · November 16, 2009, 4:04pm

WW, CE, HF and NC’s core gameplay is exactly the same.

Silks · November 16, 2009, 4:25pm

SF2:HF with ST right behind it. Especially if you take into account how great the games were during their first release. When HF came out, competition in arcades was HUGE. It really was like a second golden age of arcades back then. I don’t think any other SF game was as played in its early days.

PS: More people should be playing it on GGPO since nFBA runs the game at the correct speed (unlike mame). However, constant de-syncing midmatch from your opponent takes a lot of fun out of it. There’s something about HF that GGPO code needs to be updated for or something.

Shaft · November 16, 2009, 4:26pm

Sf3s
st
sfa2

Fulaani · November 16, 2009, 4:29pm

NC?

iirc WW had no reversals, adding them changed the game.
Speed changes from CE to HF changed the game.
Techable throws changed the game.
Supers changed the game.

Every single iteration wasn’t going to change everything but those mechanics and speed changes were significant to how the game evolved. It wasn’t just about adding the bosses and new challengers.

ilitirit · November 16, 2009, 6:25pm

New Challengers, the game that might as well not have existed.

What I’m saying is that most of the changes in those games had to do with balance, but each consecutive version (bar NC) was better. The speed did have a slight impact on some aspects but they were mostly char specific (eg. punishing normals with DPs became harder). The core mechanics and gameplay were exactly the same.

The biggest change to the game was the introduction of Super Moves, and that only came in the 5th iteration of the game. Meter management was a completely new strategic element and it’s basically stayed with the series since then. ST was the first title where players would do moves for purposes other than offense or defense (not talking about the psychological stuff). You also had to change your strategy mid-round against certains chars once they had a Super stored.

Fulaani · November 16, 2009, 6:59pm

Ah I’ve never seen super street fighter II referred to as NC.

And yes most changes had to do with (character) balance, they constantly tweaked the characters. But that was not the only thing they did, developing the game system received equal attention. Reversals, speed changes, techable throws, supers, if you really do not believe that each of those things significantly changed the game then youre just being silly.

I sincerely hope SSF4 will evolve into a better game at its core, I couldnt care less about character balance if its still the same old snorefest.

Doctrine_Dark · November 16, 2009, 7:14pm

I’d honestly give it to HD Remix.

After that, most likely Street Fighter EX 3

ilitirit · November 16, 2009, 7:43pm

I don’t think SSFIV needs new core features. It’s already a very complex game. The things that need to change IMO have more to do with character balance than anything else. Some of it seems universal, but most of it’s just char specific frame data. eg. Block stun and hit stun are properties on individual moves. Input leniency and delay is set on individual motions. Throw ranges, speed and teching are character specific. Even the wakeup rules and timing varies between characters (it shouldn’t, IMO).

Game speed and things like the reversal window are engine changes, but that’s only two major engine features I can think of that people have problems with. I’m not a huge fan of the Revenge system, but it’s something I can live with.

Anyway, I think at the moment most of this is speculation, but given the series’ history, it’s reasonable to expect that the next version will be better. That doesn’t mean it’s going to be the best version of SF, but I wouldn’t write it off just yet.

jepjepjep · November 16, 2009, 10:50pm

SF2 Hyper Fighting is the best. It all went downhill after that.

Maybe it was due to all of the political heat that Mortal Kombat was taking at the time, but the style went downhill. The character voices and the announcer became higher pitched. The alpha series came in and took on a cartoony look.

The gameplay in SSF2 regressed due to the slower speed (it was like moving back in time), also the new characters (DJ, TH, Cammy, FL) just weren’t as interesting as the original 12.

The super meter in Super Turbo broke the old-school style of gameplay and the character voices got ridiculously bad.

DHEvil · November 16, 2009, 11:34pm

Peeps be bashing too much on SF4 to be honest. It’s really good. I partly agree with most of the complaints actually but what ya gonna do? I’m not gonna stress over the bullshit, I’m just gonna enjoy the many good facets of it and level up and have fun with the mostly great community it has.

Of course, the longer you dwell on the imperfections the bigger a deal it’s going to appear.

Hopefully SSF4 will go some way to making amends for some of the downsides of SF4, but if not I’m not going to be too down on it. After all it’s fun, addictive, and pretty well balanced to boot. I like it.

Echo_Black · November 17, 2009, 1:57am

This is what people that got into fighters with SF4 actually believe

My execution is pretty average, yet by your standards, I’d be a “machine”. :arazz:

DHEvil · November 17, 2009, 2:22am

Funny because I remember reppin’ T. Hawk when ST came out. And Sagat before that.

I stand by my position in that, if you are able to ultra through a fireball, you deserve the payoff.

Echo_Black · November 17, 2009, 2:55am

You mean to tell me you were maining T.Hawk (on ST no less) back in 1994? Yet ultraing through a fireball on reaction is “machine-like” to you?

Dude, let’s hit ST on GGPO/2DF this instant (my username is the same as this forum’s on both), I long for the chance to face someone with nearly 20 years of SF exp! :rolleyes:

ruthless_nash · November 17, 2009, 2:59am

cvs2

Syke1 · November 17, 2009, 3:06am

I love me sum Alpha 2 & 3. Then 2nd Impact and 3rd Strike with St in tha mix

Mihai · November 17, 2009, 3:17am

Ni8wing:

Growing up playing SF all my life and owning most of all the arcade versions (No Ex and No Movie and sadly no SF4 (I want arcade SF4 so bad though)), I want to say that throughout SF History Capcom has given us players three great Street Fighters of all time that are not comparable.

Super Turbo: While I love love Hyper Fighting Super Turbo is far superior. In the mid 2000’s I played the old Hyper Fighting again in my college arcade. Surprisingly it got competitive. I was beating everyone with Ryu and there was a big crowd forming. These competitive Hyper Fighting sessions were happening throughout the semester (Turning back the clock). I was always dominating people with Ryu constantly doing the crossover roundhouse, standing fierce, jab shoryuken combo. Every time I did it they always got dizzy. Sometimes people got dizzy three times a round. A lot of people were frustrated because they thought this game was too cheap because you got dizzy so easy.

When you play super turbo getting dizzy doesn’t happen that easy. The game is more balanced this way. I believe it takes more skill to land a super and kill someone then do this Ryu combo in Hyper Fighting and win. Capcom did a great job in perfecting the SF2 formula in Super Turbo. In Hyper Fighting it’s much easier to get 20 wins in a row due to the cheesiness. In Super Turbo, it’s much harder to string an 8 game winning streak. Too many strong characters in Super Turbo and it’s not that easy to win. The Super also gives the losing player a chance to come back or win. ST is perfectly balanced. Yes Hyper Fighting was enjoyable and it gave the SF2 series a great spark but it’s not a mature game. It’s too cheesy to be taken seriously.

Alpha 3/Street Fighter Zero 3 Upper

While Alpha 2 was fun and I love the art. To me it just feels like a redrawn version of Super Turbo. Gameplay wise it doesn’t separate itself from Super Turbo that much. You could win by playing Ryu, Ken, Zangief the same way you do in Super Turbo. Now Alpha 3/Street Fighter Zero 3 Upper takes a giant step away from Super Turbo when it comes to gameplay. Alpha 3 takes SF players into a new world. The different ISM’s dramatically change the whole street fighter system. Also the guard meter made the game more urgent and not like the turtlefest of alpha 2. I bunch Alpha 3 and Street Fighter Zero 3 Upper in the same category because to me they really represent the same game. When Alpha 3 first came out it was immediately embraced. Players just loved it because it felt like something new. Yes there were balance issues but I think Upper took care of that and Upper was the same as or a lot like most of the console Alpha 3 versions. It’s ashamed that Zero 3 Upper never came to arcade US for the Sega Naomi system because that game I believed would give Alpha 3 a better legacy then it has today. Capcom should release Alpha 3 Upper online so that players can truly appreciate this forgotten classic.

Third Strike

One of the greatest fighting games ever. Yes it was a flop when it first came out but I think that’s because the learning curve for this game is so hard to grasp in the beginning even for seasoned Street Fighter II players. It’s like an art film. You may not understand it the first time but the more you watch it the more you appreciate it’s greatness. The more and more you play third strike and break it down, the more the game rewards the player and the game grows in depth. The underrated parry system (especially with the addition of the red parry) give players endless options and endless match ups. In addition to the great parry system, there are too many characters on the roster that can dominate the game. The myth is that this game is made up of only Ken, Yun, and Chun Li. This is far from the reality. Depending on the skill of the player Q, Hugo, Remy, Makoto, Urien, Dudley, Oro, Necro, and on and on can dominate the game. Third Strike is probably the most underappreciated game in fighting game history. It’s ashamed that players who love Super Turbo and love SF4 never really got into this game. A whole population of SF players skipped this masterpiece. We lost a lot of potential great players for this game. If you haven’t already, take a break from SF4 and play this game if you haven’t already. Third Strike will never die.

Super Street Fighter 4???

Now this game has a lot of potential and a lot of promise to be one of the great ones. First of all Capcom must make the arcade version (crossing fingers) and the console version the same. They dropped the ball and divided the SF4 community by making the arcade version and console version not exact. For SF4 to unleash it’s full potential, all the SF4 players have to be on the same page. Now to the game itself: The new focus cancel system in SF4 is extremely revolutionary. Capcom has again gave players another crafty way on how to play Street Fighter. With new characters and all the console characters included, in addition to each character having TWO ultras, and everyone more balanced and tweaked since the last SF4, this game can be bigger than life. Again like all the previous Street Fighters, Super SF4 can only truly be great if there is an arcade version that matches the console. We need everyone playing both in the arcade and the consoles to reach the highest level. The hard lesson for arcade vanilla SF4 is that we never got to see great Gen, Fei Long, Sakura, and Gouken players used in the arcade. At the same time we didn’t have the opportunity for console players to visit and compete against players in the arcade. I love playing SF4 in the arcade because that’s where a lot of the best, dedicated, and most intense players are. The game reaches a different dimension in the arcade because you invest money. To me it seems more personal. This time around, however, I felt that there was something missing because there are no console characters and I think the console characters are great. Arcade SF4 is castrated because there are no console character and console SF4 is castrated because there is no arcade version. Let’s hope that Super Street Fighter 4 is a game that everyone can play because it might be the next great SF game.

So for the past twenty or some odd years Street Fighter has become one of the greatest video game franchises with a storied history and a long dedicated tradition. Hopefully Capcom will continue to make innovative and revolutionary versions of Street Fighter in the future and hopefully the players will still be there to play them.

You are not Jeff Schaeffer.

System_1 · November 18, 2009, 9:12pm

3rd Strike by far is the best. Cool characters and smooth controls makes this game at least in the top 3 SF games of all time. Very under rated IMO.

shortpitched713 · November 18, 2009, 10:01pm

What the fuck is this?

whitey9 · November 18, 2009, 10:22pm

09 here. SF4 was the first to capture my attention, it’s the first one I got really into. I have since gone back and played through the SF games that were easy to find. Thoughts:

3s: It’s super fluid, the art is nice, but the characters are entirely too kooky for my taste. One armed guy, giant robot, whatever the fuck 12 is. Not nuts about parries, but I also haven’t played it long enough to get proficient with them.

Any iteration of 2: Show these to anybody that’s fresh and they’ll wonder why they play like total garbage. Shitty framerates, slowdown, barf. I realize the restrictions of the hardware at the time, but outside of nostalgia I don’t understand why anybody would put this shit on top.