Thank you, this is an intelligent answer.
I agree with the critisism but the reckless “worst gave evar” bs posts are really annoying.
bison really really didn’t need invincible devil’s reverse. even besides wakeup, it gets him out of corner fireball traps. that weakness helped a lot to balance him in ST, and should have remained.
ryu really really didn’t need fake fireball. graham wolfe considers this the single best move in the entire game, and not without reason - it can fool the opponent into eating DPs (and wasting supers if you’re balrog etc.), it gives him frame advantage off of blocked pokes, and it can be used for mixups after knockdown (e.g. fake -> throw). it’s a very good balancing tool for the dhalsim and balrog matchups, but it also helps him a lot in matches where he didn’t need help (lol poor honda)
chun was nerfed more than balrog, vega, or dhalsim, all of whom were better than her in ST to begin with!
and the low tier wasn’t helped out a whole lot. ken is OK, cammy/fei/blanka are all either kinda bad or OK, & gief still sucks. hawk basically sucks now too, he’s actually quite a bit worse than ST o.hawk
EDIT: another way of looking at this is to check the character rep in evo top 8:
afrolegends = mostly balrog (arguably #1 character) & some deejay (upper-mid)
choi = ryu (top)
damdai = mainly ken (mid), and used gief vs. graham (b/c rog is like the only matchup gief wins in this game)
graham wolfe = balrog & vega (another candidate for #1)
thelo = honda (upper-mid)
sirlin = fei (low or mid), cammy (low or mid), vega, bison (top)
valle = ryu & bison
sin = dhalsim (borderline top/upper-mid) & guile (upper-mid)
keep in mind that sirlin had a very easy bracket to top 8, which is why he could afford to use fei. only really good player he faced in semis iirc was bruce askew, and he ran straight to vega for that one. also note that fei & cammy were good for 1 gimmick win each vs. choi & graham before getting crushed.
tl;dr - hd remix did a good job moving top & upper-mid closer together and widening them a bit, but not such a good job in allowing low tier to compete
I don’t like Sirlin’s changes to a lot of characters, the fact that Zangief’s super was broken for a really long period of time, and all the ‘undocumented’ changes that he felt necessary to bust out at Evo to win. If you rig the game are you still good at it? =/
On top of that, the game is slower, and… seems to drop inputs half the time. (I’ll do BFBF P with Rog and get dash Straight. should be impossible. can do it 10 times out of 10 and always get super on GGPO.) I hate the art style, everything is so fucking anime, and even in HD on my evo monitor the game looks like shit. Classic mode is not arcade perfect, it’s even worse than the Dreamcast version in some respects, and on top of that I still prefer the epicness of the original SF2 music, specifically like Ryu’s theme, Bison’s theme and Ken’s theme. Hell, I prefer the SF4 reimaginings of those to the OC Remix mediocrity.
All in all, I was kind of disappointed. If my router wasn’t fucked, I’d be able to play GGPO ST instead of HD Remix online, and have better netcode and a straight up better game.
=/
SF the movie
cite sources plz. i’ve talked with people irl about what sirlin did with this game and never heard any of this. his fei was basic as hell because the character is basic, nothing new there - you spam short chicken wing a lot, you punish whiffs with rekkas, and none of this was a secret to other good players. cammy was the same way, lots of short cannon drills with some DPs mixed in, occasional hooligan, sirlin did nothing i haven’t seen a hundred times before.
fyi sirlin has placed top 8 at evo, in real ST, a bunch of times. only year he didn’t iirc was when they used the PS1 version. he’s not just a random dude spamming cannon drill & chicken wing no matter how badly you or i want to believe that.
yeah im definitely down with this, hiring comic book artists to do animation was a Bad Idea
this is everything oc remix has ever done
Uhh, a lot of the extra little undocumented changes involve hitstun on Bison’s moves. I can’t remember who found it out, but I can actually do combos with HD remix Bison, and I’ve never really played the character. ST? lol good luck. No one else really has that.
ok, fair enough
but
if it’s just bison then that didn’t help him much at all. i think the only time he used bison at evo was 1 game vs. graham which he lost. the only secret shenanigans that would have mattered would have been with fei since that’s who he used for almost all of pools + semis as well as all of the team tournament.
SRK (irc) has done a great job alienating the new st players who were introduced to the game with HDR
awesome job! nice environment you’ve created to possibly keep us around, ween us off HDR to maybe give regular ST a try… making us feel like assholes for enjoying the game really makes us want to stick around
People are overestimating I think, I’ve been flip flopping between HDR and ST on GGPO rather consistently recently, and I honestly think some of these claims are insane. The only one I will back up is a little of that ‘lost in translation’ feel that you ALWAYS get from some older arcade games to console. It’s just a subtle feeling, and GGPO seems to be a damn good arcade experience and I GET IT. But holy shit you guys are going way too far. It’s damn close to the same feel and you shouldn’t be trashing Sirlin but rather trashing what appears to be Capcoms negligent feelings towards the game. If they threw some money at it and gave it an arcade release? It could be touched up past the original, I believe.
Aside, why does advertising and people keep saying sf4 plays like ST?
SO, my respect to Jeff Schaefer, but I’m voting ST, HDR just so little under it (it came at a bad time and should have been give alot more mainstream attention).
Like I said before, people are just hating on SF4 because it’s just in to hate it right now. Give it a few years and SF4 will be considered a classic game in its own right.
In the gaming community, retro > new. Always. That’s just how it is.
Example:
When Final Fantasy VII came out, the fans of FF I, II and III hated it.
When Final Fantasy X came out, the fans of VII, VIII and IX hated it.
I guarantee you when Final Fantasy XIII comes out, the fans of X and XII will hate it.
Just the way it goes! :]
Cvs2
i hate every final fantasy
^ That’s a shame. I’m assuming you played every one of them to hate every one of them though, right?
Which wouldn’t make much sense.
I’ve played all of them, and I hated them after 6. =/ 8 was close to being good, so very close.
I’m one of the weird people who thought 8 was one of the best. 6 and 4 were amazing too, of course… but Tactics is and will always be my all-time favorite - the original Tactics on PSX, none of that GBA or DS bullshit. Can’t count how many nights I stayed up til 5 am when I had to wake up for school at 6 the next morning playing FFT on my PlayStation lol
Yeah. It’s the first one I picked up and the one I played the most during the ol’ PS1 era.
SSF2T would be next though.
Hated everything after 7.
8 wasn’t too bad. but 9 was ugh. 10 was for the PS2 hype, and 12 just went nowhere.
On topic, my answer to this thread? Alpha 3. MAX.
Yeah, I see that A3 doesn’t seem to be popular in this thread but I don’t care. I love the hell out of A3Max.
Also, the only true, canon SF game that I would say outright sucks is the original. I love every SF from the II series to the Alpha series to the III series to IV.
I had A3Max for the PSP but sold it… was too hard to play with the PSP d-pad. My hand would be aching after like 15 minutes lol
For me:
ST - Wins best arcade
HDR - Wins best console
ST for reasons of nostalgia.
Not that I’d be able to compare.