Have a look at the pretty pictures in my thread, might make the concept of hitboxes more apparent.
Speed and range combining to generate a result which we call priority. As I said, priority is a word the community uses to succinctly describe a specific phenomenon. Are you arguing that we should all stop making statements like “A will have priority over B”, instead having long drawn out descriptions of how the speed and range properties of A will cause it to beat B in the situations we are talking about?
You just said you would use such a word yourself, except you insist on putting it in quotation marks for some reason.
I’m putting in quote because they’re different things. An anti-air does not ALWAYS beat a jump in, despite the fact that it usually does because sometimes the jumper has his move out early or the defender has his move out late or the jumpin has a big hitbox and they trade.
If priority was true, one of the moves would win EVERY time regardless of the situation, which is not the case in Street Fighter IV. Example: Ken’s jumping LK CAN beat Blanka’s electricity but not ALWAYS because of the timing behind the moves and the angle at which you’re hitting Blanka.
And I think you should say “Move A can hit or trade with Move B”
one move always beating another move isnt a priority thing. it just beats it. hadoken always beats non-EX blanka ball. lariat always beats some of dhalsims normals. If I’m correct, akumas EX SRK will never trade. saying something has to always beat something else isnt what priority means. I think we can all agree lariat is a high priority move, but it will still lose to a fucking run of the mill sweep. this is where the problem is. some people think priority means something different than what it does, thats why they say there is no priority. priority doesnt mean if the moves are done the cpu decides “you did the magic move that negates that move and i reward you the hit”. priority means this will most likely beat these type of moves.
The reason those moves always result in the same outcome is because they always hit each other from the same angle, in that case using the phrase priority makes some sense.
In terms of a lot of normals, especially anti-airing jump ins where each move collides at different angles, you cannot usefully infer any single priority statement ‘A beats B’
For example, a close jump kick will lose to an uppercut but a far jump kick will beat an uppercut.
What frustrated me a lot about SF when I first got into it was everyone spoke of priority but no one could give me hard and fast answers for ‘what beats what’ because they knew it wasn’t always true.
As I said, that’s not how the people who are using the term are using it. You’re using your own definition of the term to say it doesn’t exist, and therefore nobody should use it. Which makes no sense. There is a situation in the game. People use a term to describe that situation. The term thus justifies its own existence. That’s how language works.
The word PRIORity defines what’s going on. Your move outprioritized their move MEANING your move hit first. As in ur move hit them prior to their move hitting. A trade occurs when neither move hits prior to the other. So yes when a move beats another move its due to priority, cuz one move hit prior to the other.
So simple why do all of u make it so damn complicated.
Two hitboxes 1 for being hit and 1 for hitting, its why u can sometimes get hit without actually touching them sometimes.
Good god this thread has turned to shit. Whenever an argument breaks down to bickering over semantics the parties involved need to figure out where the fuck they went wrong. I think most of you need to add a new word to your vocabulary - colloquialism.
*Ask an average joe walking down the street what a “force” is, and ask a Physicist and you’ll get two drastically different answers.
Try asking the same guy what a function is and asking a mathematician.*
When you have a specialized field (in this case fighting games) there will always be terminology that is unique to it. Sometimes said vocabulary consists of everyday words that take on new meanings. LOL at the geniuses here trying to define priority by what you read in Websters.
Seriously people priority does exist. In the example given with the ST Lariat taking priority over Psycho crusher it is correct to say that Lariat has priority over PC. Sure you can define it with red and blue hitboxes but the STREET FIGHTER DEFINITION of priority is the tendency for one move to beat another which clearly applies in this case.
I will admit that there is a gross misconception of priority and that is due to people’s lack of understanding of hitboxes, and that tends to confuse these people. But I don’t think it’s ever been in doubt for those who actually know what the fuck is going on.
Long story short. When you hear someone say, “move X has good priority.” What they’re really saying is that it has favorable hitboxes.
what about this. i execute a point blank grab 1 frame earlier than my opponent who does a non ex SPD. who wins? im pretty sure the SPD would win 100% (not sure). is this priority? i agree that all else is hitboxes, frames, etc.
I actually don’t know. An SPD is a command throw and thus not techable so I’m not sure how the game handles that. My instinct is that the command throw would win because it’s a special move but I’m really not sure.
Look, the reason Speedsix and I are making this argument is because the word priority implies an absolution. As in, this move will win every time. Since that is never the case in Street Fighter, all that such a thing can do is create issues when that move does not hit and the other person, thinking it has “priority”, has a fit.
You can use the word priority I guess. It doesn’t matter to me but people are talking about it like it’s universal and it’s not. Knowing what has the tendancy to win in a situation is very important but you should know how the move’s hitbox works so that if a variation of that situation occurs, you know the move’s mechanics there too.
If you just brand a lariat as a “high priority move” you’re asking for issues when people get hit when using it because they don’t REALIZE the situation that they used the move in and thus won’t learn from their mistake.
If you get hit in any Street Fighter game, it’s your fault. People don’t always realize that. Using a word like priority makes people blame the game instead of themselves.
Well, I can understand how people want to describe something in as simple way as possible but I don’t think you can’t accurately do this with SF hit detection, it’s just not that one-dimensional.
If you look at the way the hitboxes are positioned for a character’s move you can see exactly how the move has a very specific purpose and will be good in some scenarios and bad in others, pretty much all moves are like this.
Take the uppercut (left) vs the jump RH (right) and you can see, the uppercut has pretty much unbeatable ‘priority’ hitting from below, from the front however it’s pretty useless. The jump RH is the exact opposite. Does the uppercut have priority over the jump RH or vice versa?
People will see a move beat another and then conclude that it must have priority and thinking like this in a rock beats paper mentality isn’t very productive I don’t think.
Priority does exist, but as far as anyone knows knows there is no collision/throw priority.
Execution priority for your own moves does exist though, that’s why you can’t walk and throw a fireball. A DP will come out because it has execution priority over a fireball.
And everything you’ve said is the reason why people are giving you shit. Look I understand where you’re coming from, but it doesn’t matter.
To expand on what I said previously here’s an analogous situation:
You go into a physics class, and the professor starts talking about Newton’s second law. He now starts talking about blocks moving across the table and the forces present. You stand up and say, "Um no we shouldn’t call these forces that’s confusing we should call them something else like…
The professor’s going to look at you crazy and tell you to sit your ass down.
Again what you need to realize is that the Street Fighter community has a been around for a while and established it’s own vocabulary. Priority is the word that’s been chosen. It’s been around for years and as far as I can tell has been in use before you decided to take a serious interest in Street Fighter. The people who use it know what it means. The people who don’t? Well they’ll get their Lariats, Psycho Crushers, and Dragon Punches beat enough to figure out what’s what.
The fact is when a group decides to define its own lexicon for a particular subject they can pick whatever word they want. In this case priority has been chosen. Deal with it.
really guy? this was answered IN THIS THREAD. SPD is throw invulnerable, it wins because it cannot be thrown. Even if somehow you SPD’d the wrong direction and they tried to throw you it would not work.
you’re right for the wrong reasons, specials do not have some extra ‘priority’ over NOT specials.
edit: To be fair the wrong way priority is received is the intuitive way to think of the word priority AND it looks like it exists if you don’t know a lot about hitboxes. This is why people have more of a problem with it than say, the word forces, in a physics class you can just say ‘hey this is what is meant by forces’ and it’s very easy to convert. Here it’s like ‘this is what priority means’ and it’s not nearly as intuitive, AND you have to prove that the old way was wrong because they still think it’s right.
This question isn’t as stupid as it sounds because some moves aren’t invincible on their hitting frames (See Seth’s EX armor breaking move ‘trading’ with random pokes). But I think all command throws are throw invincible on their hitting frames.
I still haven’t gotten an answer over whether a throw or a hitting attacks win if they hit on the same frame, though.
No they aren’t. Fei Long’s definitely isn’t, and I don’t believe Honda’s is either.
I’m almost positive that the throw wins. I’ve done it and had it happen several times to me where I see what should be the active frames of a move getting thrown.
it was talking about ex SPD so good for you. if regular SPD had invincibility too then it wasn’t stated in the tread. thank you for your support in this tread.
Um what?
the tread was talking about an ex SPD. i was talking about a non ex SPD.
Then you did a shit job of conveying that. How the fuck was someone supposed to know by what you wrote? You then get pissy when someone responds to what you actually typed? - GTFO
and for the record these are called tHreads. They don’t give your tires traction.