i agree with rc he is a smart man. tekken cast is so fun + no crouch tech , auto guard , unblockables , ultras
they need to find a happy balance where ground combos will always do more than launch so you save it for when you need a tag orr make launch link only
if they balanced this game a little better sf4 might be the dead one
Agreed. This is what I think:
No more meter gain AT ALL on whiff for ANY moves on ANYONE, like SFIV. I don’t like seeing people running away and whiffing normals to build meter. I know I do it myself sometimes, but that’s gotta end. If you want meter, go hit the guy. If not, stay in your corner. The problem is that there’s a benefit from running away and not engaging. That needs to stop.
Nerf the downloadable meter gems. They do too much work for free (allowing 3 bar combos to give 2 full bars of meter on some occasions), and on top of that, you can stack multiples of them onto either char. It’s the most pay-to-win thing in the game.
Make it so that you can’t whiff the first part of a Tekken chain and complete the chain. Part of the issue with balance and Tekken chars is that they can freely whiff punish by doing parts of their chains, whiffing (thus causing them to move faster due to no block-stun), and then hitting with a specific part of the chain. It’s crap when chars like Law can miss with the first part of his already long-reaching move, only to be able to continue it for free. SF chars don’t get that treatment, so Tekken chars shouldn’t really get it either. This will emphasize the reach of most SF chars’ longer reaching normal moves over the Tekken chars’ longer reaching Tekken chains.
Reassess the default gems. The defense ones are lame, and the Pandora ones are straight stupid. The throw-tech one…why is that a thing? Couldn’t they use the “Partner lands a launcher” one? It’s much more practical and useful. Reassess the preset gems and make it so we can apply them to our characters without having to delete our data.
Nerf some of the Tekken AAs. Being upper-body invincible is one thing, but AA’ing a cross-up is where I draw the line.
Individually assessed buffs and nerfs.
Possible change) Change the time from 99 seconds to 99 “counts”. Each count being around 1.2 or 1.3 seconds. 99 seconds to whittle away at the health of 2 chars is kind of tough when the battle is going strong, and people hate time overs, no matter what logic’s behind it. I love SF X TKN and its many ways to play, but if we want this game to get more love, time outs have to be considerably lessened in this game’s meta-game.
" If you want meter, go hit the guy. If not, stay in your corner."
Oh so you do have that rushdown Dhalsim, Guile and Jack X? I would love to read about your strategies.
You got a little overboard here. This is a thread dedicated to the overuse of boost chains and I just threw a few ideas to encourage the use of solo combos.
Hardly, but once again, look at SFIV. If you whiff normals, you don’t get meter. In that game, they let specials gain meter because you can’t charge them and cancel them in a corner over and over. In THIS game, however, you can do that, and since we use the same time frame to whittle down what can possibly be double the amount of health (99 seconds for 1.5k - 2.2k health), in order to keep the snooze-fest to a minimum, matches need to award aggression somewhat more than that game. This way, you don’t have to universally nerf boost combos even more, and only have to pay attention to a select few moves/chains. Besides, Dhalsim can land hits with his stretchy hands, and Jack has a fireball that’s more than good enough for keeping pressure at long-range. As for Guile, the change would make it so that they aren’t gaining meter unless they hit him, so if he’s playing keep-away, people only gain meter when Guile lands a boom or gets hit by a fireball himself.
As for the changes stated above, yea, somewhat off-topic, but it’s still called “What I hate about a game I love”, and a lot of suggested changes are changes I feel would alleviate things I hate about a game I love. < : D
On topic:
I hate the fact that certain characters are offensive gods, meanwhile defensive characters aren’t even good at being defensive.
I hate the fact that Ibuki got nerfed despite being bad. But Hwoarang and Nina got buffed despite being good.
I hate the fact that they nerfed Poison’s dash speed and grab damage, but buffed Asuka’s grab damage. Why not just buff every mediocre character so that even if they are terrible in 1 area they’d be amazing in another. Poison bad damage; great mobility and reach (some of her moves have deceptively bad reach). Asuka bad neutral great damage.
I hate the fact that they didn’t think about a lot of the changes into the 2013 patch outside of the boost combo nerfs. If a character has to rely on boost combos to hit damage I think that’s silly. Give a character a way to hit at least 250 solo 300+ for boosts. And then let the heavy hitters break 400+. There is no excuse for why Poison hits 186 off of cr.MK. Make her EX Aeolus Edge +7 and increase the range on cr.mk. AND OMG why does her cr.HP hit less damage later on in the move’s active frames? 60 Damage for an AA is poor beyond all reason. Buff it to 90 or 120 as an apology or something damn. And suddenly you have a competent character that can at least hit damage. Sakura buff her LK Tatsu to 18 frame start up and -2/-3 for 70 damage. You shouldn’t be punished for 400 damage by doing this slow move or improve the reach on her normals. Same for other weak ass characters.
I hate the fact that M. Bison’s MKHK boost combo is so ridiculous. You’d think they’d make it push back less since it’s so brain dead. The sad thing is Bison has great tools but all I ever run into online is people abusing MKHK. I might as well call it a target combo because boost combos are at least punishable at certain ranges.
Also I freaking hate the CADC nerf because it wrecked characters with fireball CADC’s for no reason. In fact I kinda do hate the fact that whiffing normals builds more meter than throwing a fireball. Especially considering how dangerous throwing a fireball can be in this game. I wouldn’t say put them back to how they were as I understand why having them gain meter on whiff was silly. But at the very least make them gain a good bit on block.
Example using Poison (only using her as an example because I wanna play her in USF4)
-Aeolus Edge: whiff 15->0, on hit 40->30 How it is now.
-Aeolus Edge: whiff 15->0, on hit 40->55 How I feel it should be.
This should be like this across the board for all characters with projectile CADCs. It may look extreme but it’s basically the amount of meter they built in vanilla counting whiff and on hit/block. In fact even characters without CADC projectiles should be like this (Except Alisa and Juri). Less meter on whiff, but = to the meter they gained in vanilla if not more on hit.
All in all I just hate the fact that the Tekken cast is blatantly better than the street fighter cast in every category other than boost combos. Which IMO is sad.
Yes Dhalsim can use his far ranging normals, but I wonder how much meter he can build with these normals without getting too predictable. Personally I don’t remember suggesting meter build on a CADC. If it’s possible to distinguish between a CADC and an actual whiff, they should go for that. Projectiles are risky to use, even Guile’s boom. Ironically a Tekken character with decent offensive and defensive options and better damage output has the better projectile.
Jack X projectile is bad depending on the match up. There are enough projectile invincible and armor moves to just go through it. He can’t even pressure Lars with it on his wake up, if he is too close (half screen).
The point is that these characters have to take big risks to barely build any meter, while offensive characters can simply do what they do best to build a larger amount of meter.
SFxT is still a fighting game with different characters and different playstyles. There should be a balance between defensive and offensive play.
Tekken cast better than sf cast…ehhh I don’t think so. Where are the lei players, xiaoyu players, Christie, raven, kuma, bob, etc. ? When I hear tekken cast is better than sf cast its only hwo, nina, kaz, jin, law…and maybe a few lars supporters. Other than that I can say I have ran into more sf based teams than op tekken characters. Bison alone shits on most of the tekken cast in the neutral, the increase in balrog players on sfxt replays, hell i put my money on vega as better than most tekken characters. While good characters, jack x, julia, and raven are shadows of their former OP selves. All in all there is a ton of characters who are competitive even if they aren’t getting 400+ damage,+on everything or have a 3f move.
Man I dunno one competitive character without damage, adequate frame advantage or 3 frame moves… Not one.
Abel- Damage, Akuma- 3f, Balrog- 3f, Blanka- 3f, Cammy- 3f/frame advantage, Chun Li- 3f, Cody- Frame Advantage, Dhalsim- 3f, Dudley- 3f/ Damage, Elena- 3f/ Kinda damage/ Frame advantage, Guile- Frame advantage ( but I don’t consider this nigga competitive at all), Guy- Frame advantage, Hugo- Damage, Ibuki- 3f (But Lol this bitch is not competitive), Juri- Frame advantage, Ken- 3f, Bison- 3f, Poison- 3f (But lol…), Rolento- Frame advantage (cr.MP +5 on block y’all), Rufus- damage (great at extending combos),Ryu- 3f
I mean I can go on lol. For a character to be competitive they must bring something to the table at least one of those 3 things.
And I dunno many characters on the tekken side that can’t hit consistently high damage.I mean look at the combo tier list just as a point of reference. Look at how many characters on the sf side are at the bottom. And even moreso look at the combo starter the likelihood of hitting those maximum damage combos for the SF side is far more unlikely than the combos of the tekken cast. And how many tekken characters are seriously bad in neutral? Asuka, maybe Paul, maybe King, maybe Marduk and Kuma. Even moreso the freaking tekken cast is made out of characters that can chain into their tekken strings making themselves safe. The only character on the SF side that can do this is Ibuki (And kinda Dudley) despite many characters having target combos. And even if the Tekken character doesn’t do damage at least play their role effectively. They build meter faster and some of them even have amazing tag out options. What do SF characters provide in return?
And hell dude I’m not sure if Bison’s boost chain was nerfed but it doesn’t feel like it. Which is the only reason why he even does well in neutral imo. Other boost dependent characters got their BCs nerfed and their neutral suffered; if his gets nerfed then he’d suffer too.
Tl;DR - My point is that just because the balance is alright doesn’t mean it’s not lopsided and in favor of the tekken cast in general. I mean FFS some characters have AAs on the SF side that don’t even hit full damage if the move hits in it’s later active frames… That shit doesn’t even happen on the tekken side. You ever been whacked by christie’s cr.HP when you cross her up basically in the last active frames? 90 full damage maybe even adding CH damage. =|
The balance changes should’ve considered character’s strengths and weaknesses instead of just a boost combo nerf, and other system fixes. It’s still a great patch. I just wish it involved some level of community feedback if they didn’t know what to do for certain characters.
Like I said, Dhalsim would get meter just fine. His arms make the fight go to his tempo from the start of the round. Otherwise, he’s been caught and he’s getting meter through getting punched in the nose. It’s really only Jack - X and Guile I’d worry about (more Jack than Guile, tbh). Honestly, if the game could distinguish between CADCs being released and being canceled so you only build meter after it’s shot, that’d be best. It’d simplify things a tad. Still, they get meter for landing the moves on block too. You could buff other things to help with the characters outside of meter gain if it’s that important, although I’m not sure what Guile could use outside of a 3rd move. >_>
I mean, Knuckledu’s showing just how good Guile still is. Just cause he can’t whiff moves to build meter doesn’t mean he’s gonna turn crap stain brown tier. Seriously, it literally pains me to see two supposed pros backing off and whiffing normals to build meter at the end of a round. People do it A LOT and it’s a seriously ugly side of this game’s meta. Even if we’re fans of the game, you gotta admit, that’s not something the average person wants to see in a fighting game, and even if our game’s different, we can’t fool ourselves into thinking that we can get by without adhering to some complaints about the game’s pacing and meta. This is definitely one huge issue about the game’s meta.
I didn’t even pretend for a second that they would catch EVERYTHING that would need to be tended to in the game with that patch. It was a REALLY huge patch, with A LOT of changes for over 50 characters (jokes included). Like I always said: If this was just SF: Tag Assault, this game would be EXTREMELY balanced. But it’s not. It’s SF X TKN, and in this build, the TKN cast is stronger than the SF cast on average.
eh, Raven is a good character still. He was never OP in Vanilla either. Just amazingly brainless on his overall “gameplan”. Why learn all the good stuff he has underneath the surface when you can just use those ridiculous jabs on block? You also have to take into account around that same era when Raven was dominating, Assist gems were terrorizing the online scene. The character benefiting from them tremendously.
I feel he belongs on the A tier, you know the tier were all the good characters that aren’t S tier hang out.
I have mixed feelings about your thoughts on the SF side. The reason most people use them is familiarity even if they suck.
As far as Tekken guys, Lei is a great character but he requires commitment and he seems too weird for someone to casually get interested in him. A character like Jin or Kaz just gets attention quicker and their gameplay is simpler. (EWGFs don’t matter). Plus you know, people are drawn to certain characters due to the cool factor. Lei is not a cool character in that sense. Most of the tiers underneath the S tier have a variety of characters from both franchises. I know some people are butthurt they purposely made 8 out the top 10 characters be Tekken characters which I can understand. 
But everything else in the upper mid and mid tier is completely mixed.
You would think Ryu after getting nerfed heavily 2 times in a row, he would be C tier by now? Unlikely. Still a strong character. Only thing going against him is the lack of a “BS” element. He is too honest. And yeah, his fireball game is different from other SF games, but that’s not a weakness just something you have to accept and adapt to it.
Sorry for derailing, so how about the boost combos? It’s like getting stabbed with a plastic knife. It will eventually hurt…but nothing you can handle earlier on if you seize the right opportunities. I guess.
For the first time I find myself remotely agreeing with Eggy Jr… I should play the lottery.
“eh, Raven is a good character still. He was never OP in Vanilla either. Just amazingly brainless on his overall “gameplan”. Why learn all the good stuff he has underneath the surface when you can just use those ridiculous jabs on block?”
eggy speaking from experience lol o wait off topic my bad … everything i say these days seems to be off topic >.>
raven was getting 500-600 damage off loops. Combine jab jab jab, with 600 damage loops, teleport awesomeness, and you have a character that makes nina and kaz look low tier. The huge hitbox on cross up tatsu, frame trap joudans, awesome cadc game, I see why ryu and raven got hit and if another patch happens bye bye nina, kaz, hwo, law and chun.
I don’t get why people constantly want nerfs for characters they can’t beat or don’t like seeing. Learn the matchup before begging for nerfs, because guess what, you’ll be begging for nerfs for the next set of top tier characters. For all the people that loved the so called great balance SSF4 had, people were begging for Sim, Bison, Vega, Rose, Guile, Chun, Honda, Rog, Ryu, Akuma, Cammy and Seth to get nerfed. That resulted in AE and then everyone all of a sudden loved the balance in SSF4, smh.
@thancruz Man I don’t remember raven landing Solo 600 damage combos and if it requires meter then I think that’s fair. He hits like a truck and so did a lot of characters. And TBH I think his jab game was something a lot of characters had. But saying it made Kaz and Nina look low tier is a bit of an exaggeration…
I don’t see any 600 damage meterless or even 500 damage meterless (which Kaz had and still has). And even if Raven had good damage overall Raven had crap defense in Vanilla even worse than the current Hwoarang. His best defense was either Mash lp or tele out which was nowhere near as dominant as roll forward DP TC. He couldn’t even AA something Nina could do with varying degrees of success but she got a mixup off of it and even back then she did a lot of damage. This was also before her cr.lk nerf so literally if she AA’d you’d end up in backhand slaps mixups or guess her cr.HP CADC dash under and potentially lose a ton of health.
Also I think the Ryu nerfs outside of Joudan were a bit overboard considering how the game has progressed. Before people didn’t have a dependable AA, and now they do. The game is don’t jump or lose a lot of health central. Ryu was just incredibly solid in vanilla. But in this current environment I don’t think anything including Joudan is anymore ridiculous than Law’s neutral. Also consider why Ryu was so bs in vanilla: he built a lot of meter (even from faking fireballs) and he provided a free tag out with either charge EX fireball tag out or roll forward DP TC (the main offender really) and life recovery was so quick that it was basically insta heals for Ryu. On top of that the only thing that removed recoverable health is when you tag in a hurt person (not that it mattered since your health recovered up so quickly) or a cross art . In fact if you threw anyone with a DP (especially ones that you can’t safe jump) just gave your opponent the advantage. So literally the only thing Ryu did was exploit the BS mechanics of this game and bad players. Such as safe BCs (much like Cody, Rolento, Poison, Sakura, etc), Rolls, and DP TC on the system side. Player side issues were mashing (Joudan which still hits me to this day) and people that never tried launcher vs his pressure. The only thing that was honestly wonky was the tatsu cross ups, but with the AAs that exist now I’m not even sure how effective that would be. I mean as much as people (myself included) complained about Joudan I think the most used one was HK which was +1 and starts up in 22 frames… Neutral jump bait? LP bait? Hell even backdash would work. People just never did the latter often unless they played Julia, Chun or Xiaoyu.
Also even if they nerf the other top tier characters it wouldn’t change much in regards to their game plan. The only characters that were changed vastly after receiving nerfs were Ibuki (Now she has basically nothing), Poison (from zoning more plz to more in your face stuff), and Rolento (Bunch of poking with st.lp into boost or PC; which is now just poke with LP). Raven is exactly the same as before except he scores less damage. Same as Xiaoyu, Juri and a lot of other characters.
Cool story bro.
@kitl19 I apologize after our misunderstanding. hope yall are feeling better about the situation ur mom had. To be honest Vanilla Ryu (1.06 to 1.07) would not be ridiculous on 2013. If we talk about his frame data. The sweep should have been nerfed to 6 frames. Solar Plexus buff was nice but a pathetic consolation prize.
Eh, past stuff is past stuff. I do believe that backward jumping shuriken was utter bs though. No one’s changing my mind on that. Not in a million years.
As for nerfing the top tiers, it’s a good plan, but they should buff some bottom tiers too. Buffs alone aren’t always best. Nerfs alone aren’t either. It takes both to find a true balance for characters. As of right now, there’s some really infuriating crap belonging to each top tier character in this game, and there’s some really infuriating bs that low-tiers have to put up with. Like Christie: I can understand if one or two variants of her 4-5 hit Tekken chain weren’t true block strings, but you can just insta-reversal after the first two damn hits. REALLY?
@Creativecell It’s all good no hard feelings. I just can’t attend classes this term. (I’m still a little enraged about it, but meh)=|
And I agree that 1.06/1.07 Ryu would’ve been a very capable character in this version. But meh what can you do?
@cg123n1 Don’t say that man. I’m still hoping they revert the Ibuki changes. Even a small live update just for her. =(
Raven’s jump back shuriken could’ve been worse. Instead of saying “HNNNG!” He could’ve yelled “HEI! HEI! Shakunetsu!”
And you can neutral jump in the middle of her strings btw I think the only one you can’t NJ is Far MK>MK.
Christie’s Cr.LP>St.MK string on block makes me die a little inside
Nvm only a few guest i was insane all along