crap my bad meant forward and below the claw… the idea i was getting at is that it is very far infront the fist but below the claw which is quite deceptive unless you see the hit box data…actually the claw doesnt really exist in this move so if youre trying to hit with the box then you’ll just keep trading…i will try to scan and link the hit box for cr hp, but for now here is the ae hit box info which is quite close
Also another quick note is that landing st hk as anti air is completely different than cr hp…whereas cr hp is hit box based st hk is more timing based…if youre trying to land st hk at the tip then you will ALWAYS trade with moves with a low hit box (ie ryu j. hk)…what you want to do is land it just before vega extends his leg to the tip…at this point his head is a bit in the way so you have to always take a quick step back then BAM…i dont use this because st hk does little damage as an anti air…it hits like a jab :(…
For the record jumping in is not to strong in this game. if you’re getting hit by simple jump ins you deserve to lose half your health or more. That’s a pretty big mistake to make.
I disagree completely. Sure there are many characters who have balanced jump in attacks, but currently there are a few characters who have unbalanced jump in attacks like Ken/Ryu/ Hugo. It’s very difficult to AA tatsu and they can get in pretty much for free because of that, and if they hit you, there goes 500-600 damage. Not to mention that it could easily cross you up or not cross you up. Jumping in doesn’t require much skill and for an option that requires no skill to be that powerful is absurd.
You are also probably not considering the fact that there are other characters who have worse AA options than Vega… believe it or not.
Plus I don’t know if you noticed but many characters have had many lag frames added to their moves so if you attack and they jump at the same time, they could probably hit you depending on what character they are, and what attack you whiffed with.
Not every jump in should be AA’d. Blocking works just as well if not better. In SF2T if you got hit with a jump in you could potentially lose 100% health. Vega doesn’t have bad AA options in this game at all. He had plenty of decent options. Hell the majority of the tekken cast can’t AA for shit without going to a jumping normal. That doesn’t make jumping in too strong. It just means that playing that character requires a bit more skill rather than using a one size fits all dp motion or a one button normal. It requires you to space adequately, time correctly, and have the discipline to block when either of the 2 cases havn’t been met. If you ask me I think offense in this game is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too weak. Everyone should have an overhead that can combo after on crouching characters (except Hugo and Gief obviously), because blocking is extremely strong due to nerfed throw ranges. Once someone has a decent life lead there is very little to stop someone from just holding down back for the rest if the round. HeI, Kaz, Gief, Hugo are the 4 exceptions I can think of off the top of my head but that just means that the rest of the cast needs to catch up. Cross assault and Pandora need to be tweaked
As well as the meter isn’t worth the benefits as far add I can see
That is true. As you have said about AA, “It requires you to space adequately, time correctly, and have the discipline to block when either of the 2 cases havn’t been met.”
If you mess up the opportunity to AA, because you are not reading your opponent well enough to react accordingly, then yes you should block, however it should NOT be the case that I can jump in for free forcing you to block. If I know that you are going to jump and when you jump, my character is incapable of AA you on reaction, then that is a problem.
“Blocking works just as well if not better.”
No it does not. When you AA you can get some serious damage as well as offensive pressure, or at the very least you do damage and they don’t get free pressure. Are you trying to imply that blocking is a better option than that?
If all you do is block, then you fall prey to an opponents mix ups. Mixups are what Vega has problems dealing with since he has no reversal, and you are saying that you could just block? In this game, if any character gets a jump in, then they could do 600+ damage and some can even pass 700 damage. Even Vega has a 623 damage combo from a jump in with all three bars considering that his partner has a 300 damage super, and you are telling me that jumping in isn’t strong?
“If you ask me I think offense in this game is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too weak.”
I am not going to do much into attempting to persuade you because there is too much to say about how strong offense is. I have never had a problem opening up someone in this game, and when I do open them up, then there goes 500+ damage. If you just sit there and block, then I will throw you over and over and over again or mix you up until you die. If you want to tech or push buttons to get out, then I will do an extremely high damage combo. I really don’t mind, and I do do it all the time.
Most characters in this game I can kill with two mixups with Vega. If you don’t recall my video:
[media=youtube]XEzD-G6RUBo[/media]
The two mixups combined do 1044 damage.
I also disagree that everyone should be able to combo with their overhead. Can you imagine how ridiculous Guile would be if he can combo into over 400 damage with his overhead, or Juri? Their overheads are extremely difficult to block on reaction.
“Cross assault and Pandora need to be tweaked”
Yes they need to be removed. If that’s what you mean by tweaked. Cross assault is way too powerful as it will heal most of your life while bringing in your partner for 7 seconds of pure mixups/damage, or you get a free reversal super if your opponent hit a button, or if your partner is Zangief and the opponent happens to be too close, then free grab super for just being there.
Pandora is just a stupid mechanic in general that shouldn’t have even been in the game. Not only has it killed me rarely by accidentally activating, but it’s only purpose would be a comeback mechanic that doesn’t need to be in this game.
Also you state that the majority of tekken characters don’t have ground AAs. No. That is not the case. Not including air to airs AA, the tekken cast:
Asuka has EX air grab, dragon wheel kick which can combo.
Hei has tatarigoroshi, which can combo.
Hworang has DP
Jin’s AA has a slow startup but is very reliable when input on time, and its strong (100 dmg)/ comboable. He’s a very strong character too. He does a ton of damage.
Julia has DP, cr fierce.
Kazuya- cr HP, cross cancel which combos, rising uppercut which combos for a ton of damage.
King’s got EX air throw and air counter, and maybe a crouching AA attack. Don’t know too much about King.
Kuma- has frolicking bear
Law- Only thing I think he has is ex somersault which should be able to ex tag in for extended combos. But otherwise he has weak AA from what I know. He is a strong character overall though.
Lili- Andante which crushes air attacks and combos, EX angel knee, and counter.
Marduk- air throw that crushes air attacks.
Nina- Crouching HP, but she is a very powerful character.
Ogre- ancient power
Xiaoyu- Godlike crouching HK (this AA does over 400 damage with no meter). PT which is invincible.
Yoshi- Im pretty sure his DP is a good AA, and if not, then his EX dp should be.
Don’t know anything about Bob or Paul, or Steve. Not sure how good Raven’s AA are, but he has godlike everything else.
A couple things about this… #1 It’s a jump in. 9 times out of 10 the jump in is meaty and safe anyway so attempting to AA the jump in most of the time is simply the wrong choice.
#2 again it’s a jump in. If you get hit by a simple jump in then you deserve to lose half your health or more.
#3 if your opponent is jumping in retardedly where you can AA them anyway they are complete idiots and any strategy based around fighting them is void because it wont work against halfway intelligent players. I agree that Hugo’s jump in is SF4 Sagat’s People’s elbow retarded, but it’s not THAT bad. I’m losing to Hugo’s lariat. Not his jump in. His jump in is slightly threatening on wakeup due to command throw with shitty range. But after the jump in what are you looking at? if he doesnt command throw immidiately then you’re looking at a poke cancelled into lariat or clap for chip and repeat 3-4 times. Not to mention how unsafe he is on almost all of his moves. There arent many people with the ability to do ridiculous mixups after landing a blocked jump in. Gief, maybe Abel, and maybe Marduk.
yeah but you’re counting wall dive mixups as if they are reliable, which at the standard level most people are at in online play is reliable. But we both should well know by now that wall dives against anyone decent is a huge risk to take. If you stay planted on the ground your options are extremely limited, as you only have an overhead to open opponents up, which isnt comboable on crouching opponents, and Kara throw is gone, meaning any throw attempt is going to be highly choreographed due to how close you have to be to grab them. The opponent (like me) can just sit on down back as long as I have the life lead and completely disregard overheads and throws until the point where I lose the life lead or you become predictable. Not only do you have to be superb at footsies, you are forced to rely on the opponent to make a mistake and press a button at the wrong time in order to get an offense going. If Vega loses the life lead with a decent margin, he is virtually useless against anyone with sense. Now the reason I say that jump ins arent really that strong is because this situation not only applies to Vega, but everyone except Hugo, Hei, Kaz and Gief. None of the other characters have a solid ability to open up an opponent by jumping in. Sure you can pull off 600+ damage combos when the jump in hits, but you cant go around expecting that to be the norm where the average decent person is so stupid that they get hit by simple jump ins regularly.
Pandora is an option to help alleviate the timer issues. In any event, it needs major buffing.
Cross Assault is too short in duration in order to be effective from my stand point. You can use it maybe once a match to open up the opponent but you burn 3 meters (which IMO isnt worth the meter).
As for all the AA’s … I dont see enough good people playing those characters to run into those AAs, So i was unaware that all these were reliable.
#1 It’s a jump in. 9 times out of 10 the jump in is meaty and safe anyway so attempting to AA the jump in most of the time is simply the wrong choice.
If you think that 9 out of 10 jump ins against Vega players are meaty safe jumps then it makes me wonder if the players you are playing know the matchup, or if they are capable of playing equally with you on the ground. Another possibility is that you are the most godlike Anti-airing Vega player ever so they don’t dare to jump in on you.
“#3 if your opponent is jumping in retardedly where you can AA them anyway they are complete idiots and any strategy based around fighting them is void because it wont work against halfway intelligent players. I agree that Hugo’s jump in is SF4 Sagat’s People’s elbow retarded, but it’s not THAT bad. I’m losing to Hugo’s lariat. Not his jump in. His jump in is slightly threatening on wakeup due to command throw with shitty range. But after the jump in what are you looking at? if he doesnt command throw immidiately then you’re looking at a poke cancelled into lariat or clap for chip and repeat 3-4 times. Not to mention how unsafe he is on almost all of his moves. There arent many people with the ability to do ridiculous mixups after landing a blocked jump in. Gief, maybe Abel, and maybe Marduk.”
Are you implying that players like Wolfkrone and Justin Wong who jumped in on my Vega quite a bit (I’m not talking about safe meaty jumps) are complete idiots and that any strategy based around fighting them is void because it won’t work against halfway intelligent payers? They jumped on me in places where I could AA them for good damage. Sometimes I did, and sometimes I didn’t.
Also, you are missing quite a few other things that make Hugo scary. His 17 frame overhead that combos into a ton of damage combined with his 6 frame low attack that combos into a ton of damage is a great mixup. He even has a 15 frame overhead that causes float and he can bring his partner in for a ton of damage. He also has a cr jab which is +2 on block and +6 on hit with a 5 frame startup, so he could do cr jab, cr jab into hitconfirm, or walk forward lariat or jump body press which Vega cannot AA (Vega actually can AA body press with cr hp but it’s not easy). Or he could just do leap attack which is a 17 frame mid attack that crumples you on counter hit and is airborne on the first frame, and is +3 on hit, +1 on block. He also has Ultra throw that can combo into a ton of damage so he can use that instead of moonsault press.
You are trying to imply that Hugo’s mixups aren’t good at all. You ask what Hugo is going to do other than an instant grab or poke into clap after a meaty jump in without mentioning that the jump in itself is a crossup/non crossup mixup that could do over 600 damage. He has an instant high low mixup on top of the grab, all which lead into 400 or 500 plus damage.
Vega doesn’t deal well with mixups since he has no invincible attack to just beat them, and so he must be very specific in his defense options. Are you are trying to imply that mixups in general throughout this game are just easy to react to, and that they don’t work on pro players?
Then you say that he is unsafe on almost everything. No that is also not the case. Yes he is unsafe on lariat, command grabs, but his jump in and his main normals are very safe. His sweep does 130 damage and is only -2 on block. Instant overhead also does 130 damage and is -4 on block.
“As for all the AA’s … I dont see enough good people playing those characters to run into those AAs, So i was unaware that all these were reliable.”
It appears to me once again that you are playing inadequate players and coming up with incorrect information about Hugo and other factors in this game, rather than actually studying the game itself to come up with your information.
Pandora is an option to help alleviate the timer issues. In any event, it needs major buffing.
Cross Assault is too short in duration in order to be effective from my stand point. You can use it maybe once a match to open up the opponent but you burn 3 meters (which IMO isnt worth the meter).
No. It is not an option to alleviate timer issues. An option to alleviate timer issues would be to increase the timer which they are already doing, or if you need to have faster matches, then you could decrease defense options in a way that makes offense more rewarding or increase offense options for the same reason. It is stupid to just make a one hit kill comeback mechanic.
How stupid it is to lose to someone when you have plenty over half your life when they just hit Pandora on wakeup and EX attack to super which kills you. This actually happened to me one round against a terrible player who had +50% damage boost gems plus the 15% Pandora damage boost. The two hit combo did over 560 damage IIRC.
Just because you find cross assault to be too short in duration in order to be effective for you doesn’t change the fact that it is an extremely powerful tool that has been used effectively by others.
“yeah but you’re counting wall dive mixups as if they are reliable, which at the standard level most people are at in online play is reliable. But we both should well know by now that wall dives against anyone decent is a huge risk to take.”
I have used wall dive effectively in a tournament against players such as J. Wong offline. Yes there are many moves that are risky, but they are not as risky when you accurately predict your opponents’ reactions so that they get hit by that risky move. That’s what many fighting games are about. Predicting what the opponent will do and then punishing them accordingly with risky moves that have high rewards or with less risky moves that have lower rewards.
“If you stay planted on the ground your options are extremely limited, as you only have an overhead to open opponents up, which isnt comboable on crouching opponents, and Kara throw is gone, meaning any throw attempt is going to be highly choreographed due to how close you have to be to grab them. The opponent (like me) can just sit on down back as long as I have the life lead and completely disregard overheads and throws until the point where I lose the life lead or you become predictable. Not only do you have to be superb at footsies, you are forced to rely on the opponent to make a mistake and press a button at the wrong time in order to get an offense going. If Vega loses the life lead with a decent margin, he is virtually useless against anyone with sense. Now the reason I say that jump ins arent really that strong is because this situation not only applies to Vega, but everyone except Hugo, Hei, Kaz and Gief. None of the other characters have a solid ability to open up an opponent by jumping in. Sure you can pull off 600+ damage combos when the jump in hits, but you cant go around expecting that to be the norm where the average decent person is so stupid that they get hit by simple jump ins regularly.”
Once again if an opponent is just sitting on down back and not touching anything then I will throw you over and over again. If you say that you will not just stand there, that you will perform x defense, then I will just counter that defense. It is that simple. Vega is really good at countering people, so it is a viable strategy.
I really do appreciate you respectfully arguing all this with me, so please continue.
Vega doesn’t need one because beautiful people don’t need anti airs. How are you going to gaze upon his beauty in the air? You need to be on the ground to appreciate it.
i hold my own when it comes to anti airing. the vast majority of the time I have no problem anti airing with neutral jump fierce. If that isnt fast enough I switch to neutral jump or jump back strong. if that fails then they are instant air normaling in prediction to me jumping and i can hit them with ST. This is not to mention that BHC is a fucking godlike AA. Against hugo crouching fierce eats splash alive. I wasnt aware of that till someone else mentioned it on the forums. Now i dont really have the splash problem. If i lose to hugo I lose because he lariated through a poke. Hugo seriously lacks in getting in. but he makes up for it in the shit ton of damage he does.
If you jump in on someone and it’s not a meaty, it’s not a reaction jump over move, and it’s not in a situation where you know exactly what they are going to do and you know you can stop it… then it doesnt matter who it is. they are an idiot. The thing is that in Hugo’s case his spash will beat out pretty much all of Vega’s jumping normals. And on top of that you try to be preemptive with an instant air normal you face back breaker. So crouching fierce in this case is your friend. Vega also has a hard time hitting in the crossover range. no normals or specials will really be able to deal with that so you have no option but to block. But if the opponent is stranding right in front of you and jumps over then it’s obviously going to be a crossover. And no his mix ups are ass. His overheads are completely reactable and unsafe on block. His lariats are unsafe. he is slaw as shit on walk speed, his command grab range (and startup) is shit you can basically sit there all damn day on downback and the most he can really do is chip the fuck out of you without putting himself in a huge risk. i mean his only real mix up is if he empty jumps in. Command grab, lariat or block? Also, why do you keep bringing up these huge startup moves as if they are godlike? huge startup is a bad thing. It means that that move is likely to end up getting counterhit a lot. (i get fuck tons of counterhits on hugo).
(Trying to get back on topic) In the AA department Vega is fine. Hugo is an exception, but Vega isnt completely useless in that matchup either.
17 frame startup is far from “instant”, hugo either has a shit ton of startup on his moves or shit ton of recovery. Either is bad.
Well I dont generally jump in haphazardly. On the few occasions i try to test someone out, these are never an answer. But i do admit that the vast majority of people i play online are complete ass. The offline scene is pretty small here in the bay area. I’m too lazy to go and try every single normal of every single character against every single other aerial move in the game just to find out all the anti airs in the game. I don’t worry about it till i see it. Once i see it a few times during the match i’ll head over to the training room to test it out but i’m not going out of my way do find it out. I also don’t concern myself with all of my opponent’s options. I only care about the ones they actually use.
if you make pandora stronger you’re increasing an offensive option. As it is it’s completely useless. And it’s not a 1 hit kill comeback factor. You still actually have to land a hit for it to not be wasted. And in this game unless you’re fighting Kaz Hei or Ryu, no one’s offense should be that big of a deal. Which is why i think almost everyone’s offense in general should be buffed.
it’s one thing if you’re dealing with risk vs reward in a setting where the opponent has only a few frames to make a decision. When Vega goes flying across the screen it’s pretty hard to miss something like that. You know exactly what’s coming. So it’s extremely hard to catch someone THAT off guard unless they just simply dont know what their options are. You have a huge risk of getting hit out of the air, and a huge risk of missing or getting blocked. Because your chances of actually landing the thing is so small and the potential punishment is so large, it’s probably not a good idea to make that something you can rely on for consistent damage.
this is implying that throws are untechable, and un-avoidable. Like i said above, you get predictable with throws you’re gonna get nailed hard. And you have to get really close to grab the opponent.
yes, we both know that
poke beats walk
walk beats block
block beats poke
The thing is that it takes a lot of walk to beat block, making block pretty strong in this game. And yeah you can attempt to throw over and over again, but each attempt is a risk. At some point me as the defender is going to either know, or guess right that you intended to throw, particularly if me as the defender is waiting on you to make a throw attempt and actively looking for one. And if i still have the life lead i’ve potentially wasted as much as half the remaining timer or more forcing you to HAVE to take the risk of throwing or spend all of your meter (assuming you have 3 bars) to try to open me up. It’s skewed in favor of block because high low mixups are almost absent from the game and because throw range is extremely short… which is why we have the timer issue we have today. lengthening the timer alone isnt really going to help this. Buffing defensive options isnt really going to help this since defense is really strong in this game. So, offense needs to be buffed across the board for the most part.
I just think that Vega is fine in the AA department. I rarely have problems knocking people outta the air and landing with a combo or sweep.
We know that he has a lot of AA. The problem is whether or not it is viable in this game.
Sometimes people can jump in and predict your AA attempt and counter it, and then get big damage from the CH. It’s quite easy to counter pretty much all of Vega’s AA attempts because their hitboxes are not in his favor, except for jump back mp, but even then if the opponent is too close, then he CAN beat all of your AA options except for BHC which beats everything. Hence why players jump in on Vega all day.
As for Hugo, you actually can AA his crossup body splash with cr HP, but it’s a little difficult. In general dealing with crossups are difficult for him.
I think Hugo’s body splash changes his trajectory a little so depending on when he uses it, it can be an ambiguous crossup. If it doesn’t, he still can do an ambiguous crossup/non crossup jump in with body splash just like other characters can if they know the spacing.
As for his overheads… He has two 17 frame overheads, one 23 frame overhead, and one 15 frame overhead. I know that 17 frames or 15 frames is not an instant overhead, but they are extremely fast! I can’t believe that you would say that the 15 frame overhead is easy to react to. Even the two 17 frame ones are very fast. They are among the fastest overheads in the game.
Yes huge startup moves are bad, but pushing buttons against hugo is equally bad. One touch is 400 damage whether he counter hits you trying to break up what he is doing or if you block and he grabs you or high/low mixes you.
I agree, but it’s not in his favor.
What I meant by increasing offensive options, is by making more offensive options, or buffing normal offense options like more overheads that can combo, grabs with more reach, or more chip on special attacks and things like that. Basically make it more rewarding to be on offense.
Not making an offense option that functions as a comeback mechanic stronger.
I don’t think I ever catch someone “off guard” with FBA as it is quite obvious what you are doing. However FBA is very fast once off the wall, and maneuverable, so I usually beat their AA attempts by out maneuvering them and then countering them with the claw slash. On certain hard knockdowns you can also have an ambiguous crossup attempt with FBA which can really be in your favor since one hit will do 500+ damage (for me at least).
If FBA was even remotely viable in SSF4 with FA which I think it was against certain characters, then you can only imagine how good it is now when one hit does 500+ damage.
Furthermore if they jump back expecting SHC and it was FBA… then that’s a free hit right there.
I think you should mess around a bit with FBA in this game. It’s actually really good in this game.
You can always fake a throw and actually do an attack instead which will eat your tech options and usually punish for 400+ damage with most characters. If you do nothing but block, then the grab will keep it fresh on your mind, possibly making it easier for me to predict how you will react to my throw “fake.”
But you said that either you are going to know or you are going to guess right eventually when I go for a grab. That’s the thing. What if you are the one who guesses wrong and I do a 500 or 600+ damage combo as a punishment?
Also I don’t think that we have the timer issue because of blocking. I think that we have the timer issue because there are two characters to kill who can heal their life instead of one character, like in SSF4 who can’t heal their life, while having the same timer. Defense gems, life gems, and autoblock/throw gems obviously make things worse. Also the fact that the timer doesn’t stop during supers/ Pandora/ cross assault/ and cross art really doesn’t help.
As I have said before, I think that Vega is more or less fine in the AA department, except against a few characters like Hugo, Ken, Heihachi, and possibly some of the DLC characters, which is what I’m worried about.
Unless there is a jumping move in which the red hit box extends away (down and in front) from said character green hit box (can’t be hit out of his move), then Vega has viable AA.
but yeah 15 to 17 frames isnt very fast. that’s just slightly faster than reacting to a CH or PoM in SF4 which had a 20 frame startup. Online, yeah it can be hard to react to but offline… no. If you’ve gotten used to hit confirming that cMK back in AE then the time frame you’re talking about is more than double that. But i typically have no problem blocking Juri’s, Raven’s, Ryu’s, or most of the cast’s overhead
yeah you can always fake a throw and attack or even block instead. but against someone with the mentality of block and refuse to press a button until they can make a good read or lose the life lead, that typically isnt going to work. For example: If I have 2/3rd’s life and you have 1/4 life both of us playing Vega, I have zero reason to take a risk and go after you. So I’m going to sit on my nice comfy life lead. I know that Vega does not have an easy time opening up opponents. I also know that i can, on reaction, block his overhead and that if i dont block it that it’s not comboable. I can take about 5-6 throws or 7-8 overheads before i lose the life lead. Why should I tech at all? At some point you’re going to realize that i’m refusing to press any button at all and are going to go for a throw. Because I know this I can sit patiently. Do you really think you can land 5-6 throws without getting predictable, running out of time, or taking a huge risk that i can take advantage of (like jumping in)? And on top of that even if you specifically can, do you think the vast majority of other players can? This doesnt just apply for Vega. This is the story for the majority of the cast. Everyone has at least decent damage potential. But hardly anyone can create openings. This is along the lines of what you were saying. I’m just saying that buffing Pandora is another option. Not that it should be the only option, or that it should be buffed. There’s also the option of using 4 bars instead of 3, increasing damage across the board. increasing juggle points, decreasing scaling, increasing meter gain across the board, in addition to the points you stated. It’s pretty clear Pandora and cross assault are here to stay. So they might as well be useful.
As for the Hugo matchup not being in Vega’s favor. That’s because of splash combined with lariat. Lariat is getting nerfed so that wont be a problem anymore. However Hugo will now have an even harder time getting in. Vega can stay completely grounded and keep Hugo out.
I’ll give FBA another shot but so far my experience with FBA in this game mirrors that of SF4
Well 5 throws will kill you if you had 2/3 hp (5 throws equal 650 damage, and some characters have stronger normal throws than Vega), so you probably mean around 3 or 4 since 4 throws= 520 damage. So in the event that you have 2/3rds life and I get 2 throws on you then your health will be very close to mine. One more throw and we will be equal, or I could just bring in Hei safely with st hk if your just blocking and mix you up with one combo that will OHKO you.
If this was SSF4, then yea I can see it being more of a problem, but when you can have 2 characters and when you have the option to force a mixup character in like Hei who can do a mixup that does 500+ damage, then doing nothing offensively since you have that life lead can be your downfall. It has happened to me before… and I have definitely done it to other players many many times.
“Do you really think you can land 5-6 throws without getting predictable, running out of time, or taking a huge risk that i can take advantage of (like jumping in)? And on top of that even if you specifically can, do you think the vast majority of other players can?”
The answer to that is not likely. 5 or 6 throws is really really hard to get in. I doubt that I can unless I’m fighting the right person who really lets me. If a person has your mentality, then I just might be able to, although I doubt that even you would keep that same mentality after 2, 3 or maybe even 4 throws making it impossible for me to get 5 or 6 throws, but then again I wouldn’t have to go for more throws because I would attack and counter your escape attempts. If you still had the same mentality and I read you correctly, then yea I would throw you 5 or 6 times. Do I think the vast majority of players can land 5 or 6 in a round under the same circumstance? Definitely not.
Regardless, as I have said previously I would just bring in my mixup character who can help me with that situation if I need to. If I fail to beat you, then I deserve to lose. It’s that simple. You outplayed me. I would acknowledge that and learn from that round hopefully to beat you the next round.
As for Hugo being nerfed; is he really getting nerfed? How do you know? I think he does deserve to be nerfed, but I haven’t found anywhere that talked about it.
I think hugo’s nerf was mentioned a few months back about lariat losing to low moves.
But i think since you play Hei as well you’re not really going to see the serious lack of mixup the majority of the cast has. But i really dont think anyone in the cast needs nerfs. I just think that the majority of the cast is weak.
The point is that the defender has a skewed advantage over the attacker. It’s far easier for me as the defender to make a correct read or guess right than it is for the attacker to make a correct read or guess. Yes, you can bring in Hei, Kaz, Hugo, or Gief who has the ability to open up an opponent fairly easily. But the game itself is extremely limited on the ability for anyone else in the cast to open up a defender.
I actually don’t play Hei, I was just using him as an example. My team is vega/Ibuki. I do think that majority of the cast needs some buffs but I also think that some characters need some small nerfs like Hei/Kazuya.
Moves that crush standing attacks are very unfair in a game like this, especially when it is so safe, and leads to a ton of damage, and when you have launcher that crushes all crouching attacks.
Hopefully people’s grab ranges become at least as far as SSF4 range in the patch.