I’ll go back to training mode. I thought for sure that there was a link here. I’ll double check it again later.
Even if this turns out to be true, I still think that Vega is an amazing character in this game. I am having so much fun with him.
You can combo after it ONLY if someone gets hit by the overhead standing and that’s more than likely not going to ever happen unless your opponent has a sudden case of the shits during your fight and has to dash to the toilet bowl.
You can’t combo off overhead on crouchers which is lame, but overhead being 0 on block is wayyyyyyyyyy awesome. Especially because Vega having a 4 frame jab is good in this game since few characters have 3 framers.
Ya I re checked it. but this…
Exactly. After the overhead you can set up frame traps or jump, j.lk crosses up on crouching opponents.
So I heard that Capcom is going to do a major balance patch for the whole cast. Hopefully Vega doesn’t get nerfed which I don’t see happening anyways, but if he gets just one or two buffs I hope that they are these:
- Air throw should crush air attacks, at least frames 3-7.
I have been thinking alot about what they could give Vega as an AA that wouldn’t be broken but that actually works as an AA.
ST being a legit AA would be a bit too powerful because of its high damage output, and then it would be too easy to turtle. Cr HP would be fine, but I think it would be better if air throw gets a little buff since it can only function as an AA anyways.
With this buff you are still vulnerable to jump attacks for your first 4 jump squat frames and at least 2 airborne frames, so your reactions have to be good. Secondly his airthrow has terrible range, a 7 frames startup, and 2 active frames so you have to be fairly accurate. Thirdly you have no way to do additional damage since it ends in a hard knockdown, unlike any other AA that CH or causes float/knockdown. I think its a fair AA move for Vega.
- POM actually being +4 like it says in the book. This move gets beat out by everything which allows them a free air combo, so if you do hit, then you should be able to get decent damage afterwards.
They seem to think it’s ok for Guile. 
Without giving him a completely new move; I’ve always felt it should be ST, (perhaps limit the AA to lk.ST?) I mean it makes sense. Given that Vega is susceptible to being pressured once an opponent gets in I imagine that could balance things out with it being a powerful move and could potentially be turtled. But I agree I wouldn’t want it to become impossible to jump in on him. I mean that could potentially change how we play Vega, and I don’t play Vega to turtle.
Cr.HP as the AA I think would get very abused. It is far easier to sit there mashing cr.HP then it is to perform an ST under pressure.
Personally I would like to see nj.HK buffed. It currently works well when they are over you but I’m talking when the two players are even in the air. If we react correctly and get the nj.HK then we should be rewarded with a clean hit, and I don’t think people would complain as its not something we could combo off of like a DP into Super. But I wouldn’t mind nj.HK into Vega’s Cross Arts 
And agreed on the Air Throw buff; it needs to be tweaked.
They aren’t gonna buff the air throw. He’s dangerous as is in the air.
I’ll even go as far as saying any “Alpha” version of Vega has decent AA attacks. Seeing as how that’s the only version I use consistently and find not to be crappy…most players who jump in deep on me eat Cosmic Heels all day. If they jump short s. HK. A fakeout c. HP.
This really isn’t an issue.
not sure what you mean by alpha version of vega as he was only in A3 and ST was godlike back then. I mean maybe CvS2 could be an “alpha” version but cHP was godlike in that one.
Although i agree with you that AA-ing isnt a problem in this game for Vega IMO
I simply meant the movelist that’s an extension of his SF2 version.
IIRC he debut the different normals/specials in A3, then it carried over from there.
I also don’t see the use in air throw being buffed. only instant air jumping normal and jump back normal nets you a free sweep at a minimum for more damage than air throw.
Edit I take it back, if they don’t press a button then air throw is preferred because you get a reset
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The reason why I suggested a buff to airthrow, is because there is no possible followup and 150 damage is a decent punish. Buffing something with very strong damage potential might be a bit too much such as ST. Also with its slight buff, air throw would be more viable as it easily gets stuffed due to its slow startup and weak range.
Also if you think that Vega’s AA is sufficient in this game, then you are not considering the fact that certain characters have tons of active frames on their aerial attacks with massive hitboxes. Heihachi’s jump roundhouse is absolutely ridiculous as its hitbox appears to be completely unbeatable (combined with his low jump arc) and is active for 8 frames.
Characters like Hugo can jump body splash loop you all day because you can’t anti air it, without a very carefully timed cr HP. Body splash is active for 21 frames, does 140 damage, and if it hits you in anywhere its comboable for massive damage whether you are in the air or not.
@Will_Diesel- Unless there is something that you know about CH that I don’t, then it is NOT going to be anti airing people who are using deep jump ins.
Actually i said the Cosmic Heel is what i use for deep jump ins.
c. HP is for the opponents who jump short and try to bait. Just reread my initial post.
I am most certain that s. HK hits consistently just depends on if it’s pressed late. In other words the animation doesn’t change the closer you are to the opponent (example: Guy’s standing Roundhouse).
But i will concede that i haven’t gotten nearly as much out of this game as i would have liked. I’m gonna pick this game back up when everyone is released. However the little i do play there’s hardly any trading as far as the tools that are afforded to the clawed menace. Cosmic Heel does wonders for his overall game and is easily executable.
Don’t know what to tell you.
I say CH won’t work on opponents that use deep jump ins. Then you say that you actually said that CH is what you use for deep jump ins. What are you trying to imply?
“In other words the animation doesn’t change the closer you are to the opponent.” The animation does change for close and far roundhouse. Close roundhouse has 4 frame startup and has 4 less ending frames. Far roundhouse is 5 frame startup and has more ending frames. Thus the total animation is slightly different.
Also although you say that you are most certain that “s. HK hits consistently just depends on if it’s pressed late.” This is easily proven false as certain characters WILL stuff it 100% of the time with their better hitboxes and large amount of active frames. This is the same reasoning behind why jump back mp is such a powerful AA tool. It just doesn’t do that much damage.
When s. HK has a hurtbox much closer to its hit box than the other air attacks, then it will get stuffed period. There is no debate. The same thing applies to cr. HP.
Additionally, supposing that it was very difficult but possible to use these ground air attacks as actual AA, the risk/reward is heavily not in your favor.
I think that your lack of experience in the game is what makes you think that your AAs are viable. I say this not to put you down, but in an attempt to state a possible reason as to why you think this way given information that you provided.
I’ll concede on Hugo’s splash owning Vega in the aa department. Hei’s jHK I’m personally not having problems with (or hei jumping at all for that matter) I personally havn’t had enough problems to warrant paying attention to what normal hei is using in the air. njHP and jump back strong have been sufficient for dealing with anyone jumping except Hugo (I am still stumped at how to play that match). Purple like Chun Juri and Hwa don’t bother me because I stay out of their neutral jump range most of the time anyway and the few times I get caught in range I just block. But I’m the type of person that doesn’t try to aa every single jump, nor have a problem blocking jump ins all day waiting for a fuck up by the other person
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The reason why you probably don’t have problems with Hei’s jump in is because Hei’s jump in startup is 9 frames, and if the player doesn’t realize that you can startup his jf HK fairly early (Like Hugo body press) compared to normal characters then it should be quite easy to AA. But essentially there’s a timing that allows it to function like body press. It’s hitbox is massive and can crossup from far away and hits really far in front.
Also, you are right that keeping it simple with jb mp and nj fierce is a great way to just deal with jumping in general. You also have the right mindset in not minding the fact that you will have to block jumpins, and waiting for a mistake. The only real problem is the fact that a few jumpins are practically unanti airable like body press which I find to be quite absurd. Body press can actually be anti aired with cr hP but the timing is very difficult.
Thus I believe having that jump airthrow only having a few air crush frames (Maybe like frames 3-8, or 4-8) should be a viable and not overpowered option as an AA, so that Vega can AA some of these attacks. It takes 11 frames for Vega to be able to actually hit with the throw, and he would be vulnerable pretty high up making it a decently difficult move to AA with but a reliable one.
Fair enough alexlkd. I will look more into his options because Vega can’t possibly be that incompetent against even half the cast.
well worse comes to worse there’s always BHC for an anti air. Tatsu practically spams that shit. 99% of the meter use i see from him is BHC or an occasional tag in. Everything else is straight launcher or manual meterless tag on hard KD. So he’s always got meter to blow on it. I’ll give cHP a try in training room when i get to vegas. If it’s timing specific I’ll incorperate it. if it’s spacing and timing specific I’ll probably lean away from it due to the risk of eating a jump in for a minimum of 40% damage. Obviously I dont expect it to work on wake up. but the random early as fuck jump ins for no fucking reason is my concern. Lariat is also a concern but that probably belongs in another thread.
Like I said tho, Hei’s rarely jump in on me unless it’s on wake up, especially from round 2 forward. My probablem with Hei is the 50/50 that i’m just not fast enough to be able to react to. The only solution I can see to minimizing damage on that is straight up counter before the 50/50… but again that probably belongs in another thread. Ass for jump in’s only Hugo’s gets me… and having 1 single character with 1 single move that stuffs all my options is a far cry from being insufficient IMO. Buffing air throw probably wont help much because by the looks of the the effects of the hitboxes his grab box is way the hell out there behind his hit box. You’d have to have an air throw range almost as large as his SF4 Kara throw range or Guy’s Izuna grab range in order to be able to grab him. Bringing down startup would help slightly but if Hugo is in the air already you still might as well just block. The only realistic buff you can give Vega to beat it is a hitbox buff, which although nice isnt really necessary. The better solution is to nerf Hugo’s splash. But if you ask me his splash isnt really what kills me. it’s his lariat. So i’m not even fully behind nerfing it.
But I guess after playing the SF4 version of Vega and having really only 1 really bad matchup and 2 kinda sorta bad matchups instead of 3 really bad matchups, it’s hard for me to complain, because i’m content with this version of Vega. I’d be more open to buffing his offense before buffing his defense and in particular AA. I have far more problems opening up down backers, than owning the air.
If the air throw buff was granting it air crush frames 3-8, then it shouldn’t matter if his grab box is significantly behind his hitbox since you would be immune to the hitbox frame 3-8, should air throw get that air crush buff.
Also the reason why I am against using BHC as an AA is because, the damage is so low that players wouldn’t mind letting you waste two bars for that small damage output. With those two bars I could do 500+ damage with mixups afterwards. After BHC AA you then have no AA should that be your main AA option. Furthermore you have to be charging which I am hardly ever doing.
Honestly I’d say that I am fine with Vega’s AA options since AA should be a weakness of his considering his strengths, and I agree with you that his AA actually is pretty good right now considering his options even though I previously made a statement about people not considering other character offensive air attacks.
I wouldn’t mind except for the fact that the Hugo MU is retarded because he can’t AA Hugo. Certain characters have air attacks that function like Hugo’s body splash in terms of having large amounts of active frames and a ridiculous hitbox. And when the DLC characters come out and if we get more characters who can function like Hugo, then I think its going to be more unfair. This is why I urge the developers to correct this problem. Either buff Vega’s AA ever so slightly or nerf jumping in.
I have heard quite a few players actually state their dislike for the game because of the fact that jumping in is too strong. So if jumping in was nerfed, then I wouldn’t mind. But seeing as to how that is unlikely, then I think that he should get a small buff to his AA to be able to deal with characters like Hugo.
This is my take on the anti air for vega…on far reckless jump ins cr hp works like a charm for me…if ure not getting it to work check out the hit box…it has a very weird hit box that hits in front and below the claw so on closer jump-ins you completely wiff…
Other than that its a mix up game…vega is quite tall and has high hit box so the opponent has to guess early if youre gonna “air to air” anti air or st. hk anti air…if youre getting beat out clean each time then maybe you’re not mixing it up enough…the reason why neutral jump hk works so well is not only because it has a very evasive hit box but more so due to the start up time being slightly better that a typical anti air (4 frames). coupled with vega’s fast jump speed the opponent cannot react to nj hk, if they are beating you out then they are guessing…there is an area where none of your anti airs are reliable> between the far hp and the nj. hk range…this is because they know you have to use st. hk which is pretty good but a bit risky as in the rare chance it gets beat you eat a combo…
Back jump mp is good on characters with shitty range on their air to air…in this case you will beat them clean because they never had a chance to reach you but closer than that and youre taking too much risk…
if you want to be good at his anti air you really have to study the ranges, hit box and frame data…also it helps if you memories other characters jump trajectory…i used to have a lot of probs with jury and blanka but once I understood their jump arc was wierd i under stood my mistake was in the choice of anti air…
if you play against jumpy character use less cr mp and cr mk and use more st far lk and cr. lp…the quicker recovery leaves you with more anti air options plus the end of his cr lk is the range where you want those bitches to try jump in on you…
Also what helps is dont just stand there and wait to anti air because good players know youre ranges also so take a step back our of the shitty zone i mentioned and land that cr hp…or duck then st hk or stand then cr. hp and just mess around with their timing…oh lastly of far jump ins from characters who can alter their jump arch be save walk back and use st hk and not cr mp
vega’s anti airing is complex but like someone mentioned 'his punishes re freeeeee"…I hope this helps…
You got alot of correct information here. There are a couple of things that you said that I would like to research though. Firstly you say that the cr HP hitbox goes a bit forward and above the claw. I would really love to confirm this information and any other hitbox information for Vega.
Where did you find the hitbox data? I would really like to take a look.