Ok, so I get what your saying. By pressure you mean the logical necessity to act to counter Bison because blocking SK’s endlessly will eventually result in a loss due to chip damage. I am well aware of this issue.
The problem with why this situation doesn’t actually cause much “pressure” has, indeed nothing to do with the psychological pressure created by the logical necessity of the chip damage or the chip damage itself as a reason to act at some point (your point), but due to the trade-offs. There is nothing that Bison has in his favor here. Every character has some move that will counter Bison and when they do it will take more damage than he does and put him in a knockdown which is very bad for him. This is all based on how much damage they take and what a knockdown does for Bison, which is another opportunity for him to lose more life, for which he has limited options. Therefore, the fact that one his pressuring the other player means that the probability of him being reversed becomes greater (given the increase in opportunity) and given the fact that no matter who gets hit it wont be in Bison’s favor, the fact that SK’s and pokes are safe on block means nothing in the FINAL analysis. Therefore, the odds are not in his favor even when he is pressuring someone. Even his punishes, assuming they make an unsafe move, don’t do much damage, so even there he loses out.
Its simple, run through all the possible permutations at high level play and weigh the damage and options appropriately and you would have the probability of who will win. Anyone who plays Bison enough will know that he has to hit you more times then you do and has less options. If that is low tier I don’t know what is. Anything else is subjective.
Unfortunately HappyMedicine was not able to adapt fast enough to this SK pressure counter tactic … neverhtheless this is a weak point of Bisons pressure game … but … you just have to adapt against Chars with a great neutral Jump !!!
After playing a lot in the last weeks/months and also having the opportunity to play with and against some top europen players I would adjust my wish list … not much but this is what would make Bison complete !!! Yes … I am saying “complete” because he is already a very strong character:
Increase cr.lk damage to 30 damage
Increase active frames of Skull Diver or make it stay active until grounded
Give cs.mk less pushback
Make 1st hit of mk SK 90 Damage
cr.hp 9 Frame start up
EX SK Knock Down Time from lk SK (>38 Frames)
Ultra 2 back to Motion
That it is … I know that this is a lot … and it would absolutely shot Bison into top tier … still hard to use in high level and still a hard worker … but that´s what Bison is … a hard worker.
I am also not a friend of nerfing the top tiers too much I would only adjust a bit --> Cammy to 900 health --> Fei to 1000 stun --> Akuma more recovery on demon flip punch … not more they should all stay A-Tier … !!!
I’m not sure what you don’t agree with. I said a damage buff would help him the most without breaking most of his matchups. Yes with bison you have to figure out how to get in to do any damage, however there are many situations where as Bison even with his small amount of damage you force your opponent to do nothing but hold block. When your opponent is in the corner and you are just outside of S.MK / S.HK range most characters don’t have options to get himself out of the corner and Bison is almost free to keep him there. This is actually where I think his biggest advantage is, though it’s not cheap as a character like Cammy where it leads to big damage from almost autopilot set ups.
He still has awesome walk speed and great pokes. His wakeup can be option selected to death by certain characters but they still have to guess right. Most of the time it’s a free escape. His FA is also good, especially how quickly he can fwd dash cancel from a FA.
He is by no means a shit character and def outside of mid-tier imo.
Watching this video, it becomes clear how fucking lame Bison is. No way to force the issue or impose yourself on the opponent. Carefree jump ins all day. No hit confirms for big damage. No nothing. Just a lot of crouching, and looking for some gift. And all it takes is a neutral jump and a miss to completely turn things around for the other player. So many things Bison cannot do that other characters can, and where the hell is his compensation for those limitations? Bear in mind, we are watching one of the best Bisons in the US, and his gameplay in general looks lame (he isn’t a lame player, but just goes to show how even a great player can look listless and unproductive with Bison).
Yes please get over there and post. We have morons, (the first posts in the thread unfortunately) talking about how Bison is a strong character, in need of minor things. No doubt these people are morons.
It’s no surprise that there are going to be people talking about characters they know fuck all about and probably haven’t ever played. Just make sure you don’t do the exact same thing in the other character posts.
Everyone needs to get their ass over to Capcom Unity and post all these tweaks ASAP! An idiot actually suggested to “make the scissor kicks all punishable on block when there up close”. Are you serious?! Yo… I swear if Bison gets hit with a bunch of nerfs again… I’m done. Been playing him since Vanilla, and never once felt like he received justice. He hasn’t even won a damn major for God’s sake. I know I don’t post on here much, but please… if you haven’t done it already, post your “sensible” suggestions. These fools who don’t play Bison will never understand unless we speak up.
Guys get all your asses over to that Unity Bison thread right now. Those noobs have already started the bison whining cleverly discussed with posts like “Bison is good how he is” or “he is just about right,”
^I love all those changes except U2 being a motion. You guys have to realize how silly that is. Walking forward vs any fireball character knowing you’ll get a 100% punish if they throw plasma? That puts Bison into WAY too many good situations to be balanced. Immediately that would turn any fireball based match up into a 6-4 Bison. Heck, you could even punish your opponent from meter building from across the screen.
Not sure how greedy I’m being but in addition to the 6 changes above that I like I’d also like hit box improvements to s.mk and MAYBE s.rh.
For s.mk make it so the hit box and hurt box are the same length. Extending the hit box for additional range would probably be too good so pulling back the hurt box would be the better option. Bonus - Make it -1 on block instead of -3.
For s.rh I’d like almost the same thing done but still have the hurt box extended further out… just slightly less so. Bonus - Make it 0 on block instead of -1.
My reasoning for those changes are because those are pretty much our main tools and they’re very lack luster in a game where single strike moves are so easily focused through. They’re mostly only good for whiff punishing in their current form because most people have (finally) figured out they can abuse the hurt box and OS cancel from a distance when they stuff it. I guess Capcom could take the easy way out and just buff the damage of each move by 10 which would certainly be a good buff and put more doubt into the minds of those who are hit by the attacks, but I rather have the buffed utility.
Lastly: 9) Revert l.sk push-back changes to put the scissor loop back in.
That change is for all the dreamers out there… but we know it’s not gonna happen. It wouldn’t even be too strong and would make Bison scary again (imo), but I think most people would panic and whine again once they get caught in the corner rather than bothering to understand their ways out of it.
Neither of those two control space the same way Bison does, nor can they control space nearly as well as Bison does.
Let me pose this question: What is Ryu supposed to do if Bison starts walking forward and has a motion U2? What could any shoto do?
Bison having to walk forward is when he is most exploitable, which is one of the reasons why it’s a huge deal if Bison doesn’t have a life lead. With U2 being a motion, Bison would literally be able to walk any of them to the corner with zero resistance regardless if he’s at a life deficit or not. That change would immediately make all shoto matches 6-4 Bison favour.
Now let me ask another question: What match ups would U2 being a motion help even things up?
Maybe prevent Honda from meter building - a minor buff. Maybe Guile? Not really, the move is still way too slow frame wise. Zangief? No effect. Cammy? Nothing.
Making U2 a motion only skews certain match ups into Bison’s favour without actually helping most other match ups or improving Bison’s problem areas.
You guys gotta keep pushing in requests man, I’d hate to see that thread swarmed with stupid nerf bat requests and whatever. Stay active in that topic because it’s gonna be closed in a few days and that’s it. Zip, zilch, nada. The feedback is gonna be picked apart and they will probably only submit a handful of things. It’s not likely we’re gonna see character overhauls.
I haven’t been playing a lot but mostly just casually offline and online once in a blue moon but man it riles me up seeing Bison lose to shenanigans on stream and stuff.
He needs damage and setups. I see too many people pestering for crouch HP to be faster but that doesn’t solve problems against Chun, Honda, Guile, Zangief to name a few. People gotta look at the bigger picture. Bison needs a little more damage on the chase and in the neutral zones. Reason why SFxT Bison is so much more fun to use is because he can deal damage without charge. Bison’s non-charge damage is decent in here but a little more will just topple him and even him out with top tier when he has the chance to do it.