Seems too far outside normal game mechanics to be valid. Also, I don’t agree that this would ONLY come to into play against Guile.
I’ll take it. Better than Devil’s Reverses. Also, EX version could hit overhead and ground bounce for free Ultra.
Even worse when they call it a “trap”. I’m often annoyed so much that I’ll lecture people on how to beat me.
It’s hard to say, but I don’t think it won’t affect other matchups at all to be honest…
Basically, the key not to suck against Guile is:
- having a strong jump-in that Guile struggles to AA;
- having a low jump arc;
- having a move that is invincible to fireballs during the entire startup (or at least in the latter part of it);
- having a move that goes through fireballs AND is safe;
- dealing more damage than him.
Bison has none of that, that’s why he loses so badly to him. What he needs is to solve at least one of these problems, but at the same time not affect other matchups as well.
Honestly the better idea would likely be to give EX SK full invul to projectiles. The problem with that move now is booms move so slow that Bison gets tagged as they end from most ranges, from others Guile recovers and just blocks and punishes.
Doesn’t effect most of Bison’s other matchups those characters are whining about EX PC. Might help a little against other characters with slowballs but tbh none of them have the quick recovery guile does so EX PC works from most ranges on them.
The other options to improve that matchup outside of nerf Guile would be to crank the damage up big time so every mistake by Guile actually means something.
Stomp not losing to cr HP for starters
Yeah but those invulnerable frames wore off ages ago on EX-Stomp. It’s the hit box/hurt box interaction.
According to Dawgtanian they (Capcom) are considering anti air and U2 changes at the very least. I hope they acknowledge his damage buff suggestions a bit, too.
I still want a hard knockdown EX-SK on second hit. The game is too throw-centric. Someone confirm or deny this but doesn’t Bison have like an extra techable frame on his throws? I think he could use a consistent hard knockdown. The only other one I can think of is basically EX-Stomp, but landing yourself to setup for something is difficult with Skulldiver.
I’m of the opinion that the psycho punisher is just a BAD move for Bison. If you have to completely depart from the character and give him a QCF command it shows it is just a cheap fix to cover up major underlying defects with the character. Its attempting to treat the symptoms which results in a less than perfect outcome.
What they need to do is address bison’s defects directly instead of trying to indirectly mask the problem.
Umm Urien had a QCF super and he was still high tier so…
@CobraVirus
Yeah, but for completely different reasons… In 3rd strike, supers were a much more important aspect in a character’s design, and players relied mostly on them to do damage. Now, since that was arguably the 2nd best super in the game, obviously the entire character became extremely strong.
Still, Urien had a surprisingly good neutral game even without meter. He was, for the most part, a well designed and complete character: AR wasn’t what made him good, it was what made an already good character *dangerous.
*
In SF4, characters don’t have to rely on ultras and supers as much. It’s all about neutral game and knock down mixups. I agree with exogen, fixing the ultra won’t fix the character, and he needs other changes as well. But that doesnt mean it shouldnt be changed at all, it’s a useless move as it is.
Fixing the characters weaknesses will fix the character, not giving a band aid patch to cover them up. U2 as a qcf just covers them up.
As I have said before they can make U2 a motion or just reduce the startup by a lot to make that worth something. I just hate how useless that move is right now.
I have also said fix Bison’s other problems, yes fixing U2 doesn’t fix Bison on its own but it doesn’t hurt either and why are people thinking that Capcom can’t do both considering some of the crazy buffs other characters are getting.
For those of you who have twitter, somebody ask @dawgtanian or combofiend about the shifted throw tech window for Bison(and Chun and Rose). I want that to be looked over for usf4 at least.
I hope they reduce some of the pushback on hit for cr. MP. That would make cr.MP -> cr.MK possible at slightly farther ranges.
I would like to have one of the ultras replaced with a create-a-combo ultra. Like Juri’s ultra or Yun’s super. Call the Ultra “Final Bison”. I think having an Ultra like this would put new life into Bison. This Ultra could give him a great comeback factor, and even the playing field in the Guile match-up. Not too familiar with CvS2, but Bison had something similar with one of his grooves.
This is actually one of the best, if not thee best, recommendation for Bison I’ve heard in the upcoming update. The only thing that’s sort of an issue is the fact that Bison’s a charge character, but who knows, maybe that wouldn’t be a factor.
Wasn’t a factor in CVS2 at all. You didn’t have to use paint the fence to combo with that, hell you usually got to end it with a super to boot.
Though I should note that the damage Bison dishes out in that game is a lot better than the bug bites he dishes out in SF4
What this guy said.
Changes to bison: Make him exactly how he was in super sf4. End changes. I hate never being close enough to c.lk xx scissors twice. Surprised no one else misses that. Changing U2 to a charge literally made it useless. Functionally, I don’t get how it’s different than U1 now. Range maybe? I dunno. Pretty dumb. I’m in favor of almost any change to bison that lets him land more ultras.
other minor wishlist stuff: Give j.MP a better hitbox (Better air to air allows for more ultra landing opportunities) , give standing lk a better horizontal hitbox, give EX psycho crusher literally just two more frames of invulnerability, making it an ACTUAL reversal.
Keep in mind, every character is SUPPOSED to have a weakness. I’m not in favor of making a character that has no weaknesses, because it makes it likely that from a design aspect, they’ll be hesitant to give him strengths. I want weakness to work around, and a strength to exploit. That said, the c.HP buff would be nice if it traded, but I’m okay with the character not being amazing at anti-airing as long as he’s amazing at other stuff. As it stands, he’s just not good enough at anything to be a real threat.
Bison is a decent character overall so I don’t think he needs any huge buffs, but he is indeed overwhelming compared to the better characters.
These are my suggestions:
- Buff U2: Bison’s U2 was ridiculous in Super, but now it is one of the worst in the game. Either give it a massive speed boost or make it a motion Ultra again. If the second alternative would apply, damage would need to be lowered and startup remain the same.
- Decrease hurtbox on st hk somewhat.
- Reduce startup on cr hp.
- Fix the annoying input issue where you have to make a pause to get Ultra instead of teleport (no big deal, but yeah …)
- Make crossup PS beat out reversals or at least go through them (I think this might be the case with mp one if you time it well … not sure, though).
Decrease recovery on forward teleport; as of now you can’t even punish predicted fireballs.
- I can’t really see that he needs any nerfs. The above buffs would not make him overpowered.