^umm…throws are 0 frames in sf2 games…meaning in situations where characters cannot do a special/super to reversal they have to use their throw, which means more often than not they are going to press the throw input multiple times (mash) to get a counter throw/reversal throw (see dhalsim, bison, guile if you take away his charge) etc.
now i may be wrong and maybe blazblue has a button combo to use but IIRC, they have a one button grab that isnt walk up -> direction + attack. its a seperate button, which i think is a great way to handle the concept. we still have the whiffs, punishes, escapes, and all that, but with little room to worry about kara throw business. now sure, other mechanics in the game related to grabs may be a bit broken (carl loop, jin abusing grab run icecar vs cpu, etc.) but the 1 button execution is a pretty good answer to the problem IMO.
That’s just a binding of B and C I’m afraid, guess a dedicated throw button may work though for certain games.
ha, i definately thought that was a possibility. guess i was used to using the shortcut on my pad because hitting b and c is kind of awkward.
nonetheless, i think it would be a good option
One button. Although i have to admit that CvS2 did it right with that system. You can only tech standing up in that game, the tech has quick animation keeping the pace of the game, and both characters take no damage if there was a successful tech. I like that just the fact that you are being approached means the offense can pressure you, and you have to think about your options instead of crouching all day and mashing SRK.
I don’t mind Two Buttons, but i vastly prefer One button.
After playing SF4 and the 3D fighters lately, I’m used to two button grabs and prefer them now.
wrong. you can crouch tech in cvs2.
and EVERY OTHER SF GAME A TECH THROW IS IN.
Sure there is. Taking SF games for example, the only moves that need to be kara cancellable into throws are weak attacks (if any at all), and those rarely move the character at all so there would barely be any kara normal throws if it were like that. Capcom just has a history of preserving system mechanics that add some depth to the games (most notably the 2-in-1) so they let mediums and heavies cancel into throws as well and we have kara throws.
They might have been an accident in 3S, but in SF4 they are definitely there intentionally to allow players more creativity.
I usually don’t like one button throws since they are tied to high priority moves, and because sometimes I didn’t want to throw. This only happens to me in 2nd impact, though. However, I agree with people that different throw systems work well for different games. I extremely dislike Blazblue throws, though.
Also, I dunno whats the deal with disliking kara throws. They create an interesting dynamic wake up game in certain games because of this. Since you have to fear the character in an even larger range so you have to re-assess your options when put in that situation. I dunno, for me, I really enjoy doing karas for moves/throws cuz it makes the game more interesting. At least for me.
uh, and that’s still totally doable if the character merely had a larger throw range instead. I’m not hating on karas on general, because often karaing other stuff is situational and changes how you’re using the move, that’s a mechanic that adds depth, (like aforementioned Carl and Litchi airdash movement) but aside from what DandyJ said (you get a bit more startup on the throw, so being point blank means you’re probably better off with the normal), there’s like no reason to use your regular if you have kara. If there was some kind of more notable downside or difference between the two it’d be fine, but there isn’t really enough to justify it being there over a mere throw range buff.
A subset of that would be my dislike of useless specials that are dictated by with button strength as well (why would you do anything but LK flashkick in ST, etc), where I like Guilty Gear’s approach to it, although I suppose that’s much harder to work around in a series that’s already established them.
The problem with kara throws is that it defeats the original purpose of balancing throw ranges and the overall game in general. Chun in 3s having a grab much longer than kens doesn’t make much sense. Chun already had the longer spacing on her normals and a low fwd, super. Did she really need a grab that goes that far? shes top tier w\o it anyway…
ken in sf4 has the most absurd kara throw I’ve ever seen. Zangief\abel whom are designed grapplers can’t throw someone @ further range than ken? Isn’t that kind of fucked up? ken isn’t even a designed grappler but now his throw is part of his main game plan.
If you like the mind game of dealing with a throw from larger ranges, just give every character a lunging throw like in tekken. Its the exact same as a kara minus the input technique. your throw is slower but goes further.
The kara system not only fucks up throws but now you have kara specials. Kara srk, kara FB, kara UOH. This whole extra subset you get off kara’s is STRICTLY based on what normal\s your character can use for a kara. So if your character has a bad kara, you’re fucked in that aspect of the game.
All of the original balance on the game gets thrown out the window with a kara system. Throw ranges, AA ranges all become unwanted design flaws. Sometimes they balance themselves out but its a system mechanic that should be GONE with.
side note: karas aren’t the result of a 2 button throw system. Throws in 3s for example are considered a special. Some normals in that game can be canceled out of on startup so thats how you get a kara throw. You could have a 1 button throw game and still have kara throws.
I prefer two button grabs so atleast i have a feeling of stability and know im actually gonna grab or if it whiffed.
I just wanted to mention that this is kind of bunk. Being weak in an aspect of the game is what makes different characters interesting. If your character has a bad FB, you’re at a disadvantage in the zoning aspect of the game. If your character has a bad DP, you’re fucked there.
Being fucked in one aspect of the game is not necessarily a bad thing, it’s a key part of an interesting roster. Just because the aspect of the game being discussed wasn’t originally intended, doesn’t make it a bad thing. Imagine if 2-in-1’s were deemed a bad glitch and needed to be removed from SF2. Where would we be now?
I prefer 1 button throws, but I don’t have a problem with 2 button ones.
I hate two button grabs.
in Tekken one button throws work fine, but in a Street Fighter game that would be a catastrophe.
This whole post is true. It’s not even about being punished for whiffing the throw, it’s about the stupid option selects that are created from one button throws. One button throws create options that shouldn’t be available. Either you commit to the throw, or you don’t. You punch/kick, or you don’t. That’s how it should work. Not “if I do this, you’ll get thrown, or if I do this, you’ll get hit/be in block.” That basically let’s you pressure for free, and in newer fighting games, that just doesn’t apply to well.
Option selects are better or worse depending on the game and the situation, but seriously. If you want a throw, you should have to commit to it, and face the consequences if it doesn’t land. Just imo…
Except if we were talking about street fighter (which has had both 1 and 2 button throws) an extra throw button would bump up the total number of buttons to 7… And that’s just a mess.
I’d rather have two button throws even though I’m a scrubby player. Trying to ROM with magneto then doing sj. fk to cause flying screen sucks when I want to throw them into the corner for a reset. IMO, it would be easier if it was a two button command so that I can grab instead of throwing out the sj. fk.
As for kara cancelling…I’m not sure. I don’t know a lot about engine mechanics, but is there a way to take out cancelling a normal move into the throw? Maybe allow the cancel (so timing the two buttons isn’t insanely strict) but prevent the stepping forward that allows throws to gain more range? Is that even possible?