Umm…Japanese tournies have been run like this for many years already. Welcome to the past, Marty.
Do you even know what you’re talking about most of the time? Arcana Heart has been around for a good while. The Japanese have taken a liking to this game and have been playing it for a while already(since December 2k6). They know what high level play is like because they’re the ones discovering shit nonstop. And what about AC teams? Oh, right. You said some stuff about AC in the EVO forum. Let’s not talk about that because you don’t have half a clue about what you’re saying.
The prize is pride and recognition. The Japanese aren’t ALWAYS about the money. You go and play some games. If you win, great. If you lose, there’s always next year. For them it’s a measurement of skill level. They’re culture is a lot more different when it comes to tournies.
Who said it’s limited to top players only? There could be a Maynard McGuffin in Ohio that might attend an SBO qualifier one day and get a shot at Japan. And yes, the machines are set to freeplay.
If you’re a qualifier, you go and prepare a few days before the tournament. There ARE arcades everywhere in Japan. Yeah, you spend more money, but look at the payoff for players like Sabin. The dude is becoming famous out there. The US is getting recognition for Arcana Heart and the Japanese are asking more and more about us.
Now, if you’re smart, you’d probably be a lot more informed about these things. But since you’re not, it’d be wise to STFU already. All this tourney talk and you never attend any. That’s like saying “I’ve seen a pussy, but I’ve never laid pipe in one.”
Which games are you referring to exactly, because I don’t really agree with you…do you mean GGXX Accent Core and Arcana Heart? I’m not really sure how you can say the level of play for either of those games was weak, even in comparison to Third Strike. Sure, Arcana Heart was probably the newest game at SBO but the players play so damn much that in the end, it doesn’t matter. Most of the best strategies are discovered almost immediately.
Also, the incentive to win SBO goes beyond material prizes…I’d rather win SBO, because it would mean more to me(as stated, pride and recognition) than getting a decent cash prize from Evo.
I don’t get why so much hate, and even what is your point. MvC2 played ultra hardcore after 8 months still didn’t have matches unflies, fast flies, unblockables, ROM, Santhax, heck, almost anything that works in high level today. 3rd Strike barely had any Yuns. That’s the level GG AC and Arcana are. That’s the level CFJ achieved. Unless the games are not that complex to begin with, which I highly doubt, if they don’t die soon the tactics will completely change. And I know japanese tourneys were always run single game sinmgle elimination. That’s why I think they always sucked and always will. SBO is just the huge tournament that sucks, but the small ones sucks too, IMO.
Now tell me, for real, would you rather have Evo turning into SBO-cover next year.
Do you want Evo to run the new Naruto game or whatever sponsor they can get instead of CvS2? Do you want the tournament to be single game single elimination with teams, and you probably nt being able to play a single game diuring the entire weekend? If that’s really what you want, then I believe you. You’re not an hypocrite at all, and I think you should start a thread about this so more people can share the delightful idea of an Evo without pizes, single game, single elmination, where most people won’t ba able to play a single game of whatever the entire weekend. Fanboys will go crazy.
How do the players not benefit? it’s a win/win situation. because of sbo companies are pressured to put out new games every year, and we al et new gams to play at some point down the line. if a game gets added to sbo, it wil get instant play from the entire japanese community out here. i dont see how this is anything else other than win/win for the players nd companies involved.
OMG, you can’t be serious bro, are u kidding me? there are qualifiers leading up to sbo months in advance…during this time, new tactics and strats are discovered. I can’t speak for the other new games that well, but Arcaa Heart has evolved from a 3 character game at the time of release (Kamui/Konoha/Kira) to a game where any character can win. A Lieselotte player took SBO, Lilica player got 2nd, and the rest of the top 8 were comprised of mostly mid/low tier. There was only 1 Kamui player in the top 8 and that is what the Japanese community was crying about the most when the game first came out.
The prizes are not as good as Evo, that’s for sure. But because Japan is so small, many players jus play for the fun of it and because they truly love the game, as opposed to winning money. I don’t agree with it, but there’s nothing wrong with that, just a different culture. Besides, foreign players get incentives for heading to SBO because the foreign qualifiers have to guarantee that their ticket is paid for…so it’s not necessarily all that bad. Going to SBO cost me a fuckload of money and I’m almost broke, but the experience is definetely worth it to me. Nothing to do wiht being a Japanophile. I just enjoy playing the strongest competition possible, and Japan is the place to be when it comes to competition in X game of your choice.
I believe that the goal of SBO is to promote new games, and is more of a show than a tournament. Someone should translate their mission statement on their page acually as I’m sure it explains it all. And I have the impression that SBO is profitable. If you are not a player, you have to pay 1000-1200 yen per day to attend the event. Buying a program guide is not free also, it’s also 1200 yen, and you get profiles of all the players, top tier strats, and the state of the scene. It’s definetely presented in the style of a WWF/WWE event. While I might not necessarily agree with it, SBO has definetely given a shot in the arm to the Japanese arcade/fighting game scene, and by proxy, i is helping other overseas communities. Furthermore, it’s obvious that they are in it to MAKE MONEY, just like every other enterprise. I don’t see a problem with hat.
There is a area upstairs in Ariake to train for the games that are being played that day. It’s not free. The cost is 100 yen per game. However you get to play the best players in the world in a room upstairs, and it’s on arcade cabinets no less. Like I said, I don’t think these ideas would fly in america, but then again, this aint fucking america. I was cool with it either way, because I like playing on arcade. I didn’t “feel cheated at all.”
The only thing on freeplay was the console release of PS2 Arcana Heart, and that was because Yuki/Ecole etc are promoing this game to no end. Thousdands of players how up to spectate and show their love for fighting games. Again, I don’t see what the problem is, but it’s clear that you don’t see eye to eye on this topic, and that’s okay, not trying to convince you. Just trying to clear up some misconceptions
Showdown Championships is nothing on the level of SBO, don’t get it twisted. To compare those 2 events would be a insult o SBO.
I meant players as people attending the tourney. At Evo you are part of the show. At SBO most people just watch it, and people that play can’t play much.
I actually agree. But using MvC2 as an example, after 8 months we all knew that Cable wasn’t unbeatable (MvC2’s Kamui maybe). Yet, the game was ver very different from what it is today. I’m sure that a year from now you’ll be incredibly better at Arcana. Mature games that keep been well played are more developed. You know that’s true. I’m not saying it sucks but, today, MvC2 or even 3rd Srike are more developed than Arcana, don’t you think? Maybe not ST, since apparently it didn’t change much in 10 years and OGs can come out of nowhere and still win at it.
I never said that the japanese competition sucks. I said that SBO’s model, IMO, sucks. You also don’t agree with the prize structure. And remember that you are among the elite, the players good enough to actually play at SBO finals. Going to Japan to play must be great, but the difference between just being in Japan and being in Japan and attending SBO is nota s big as the difference between being in US and being in US while attending Evo, for gamers. Evo adds much more. Japan is cool because of the overall competition, not necessarily SBO.
I am all for profit, and I agree with every line here. But again, for people who want to compete, Evo is much better. The games that people like will be there and everybody can play a lot with double elimination best of 3. Imagine Arcana was as popular as MvC2. Evo would be 10 times better for you IMO.
I didn’t know that. That’s why I needed your confirmation. That makes it much better. Free is even better, of course :wgrin:
If you pay atention, we barely disagree. The things I complained about are the things you don’t agree with SBO as well. I thank you for answering in such a polite way and help us all to have a clear view of SBO in general.
I also keep thinking that single game single elimination teams, small prizes and choice of games based on sponsors makes it a sucky tourney when compared to Evo. I’m certan their presentation is amazing, which is an obligation since thier work for profits, but american tourneys are much more player friendly, with more accurate results. I think you agree with me for the most part, although not to the same degree.
What I mean is that Showdown looks a lot more like SBO than Evo does. Japanese cabinets only, lots of people just watching and not playing, single game single elimination team tourneys only (not sure about that). Despite being so much worse for lots of reasons, Showdown follows SBO. Evo is very different from it and, for people who actually want to compete and see how they do, Evo is much better. All obviously IMO. Maybe the people who hated me to no end think I’m describing an universal fact or something…
Thanks for the answer, man.
When I say the line above is when people get all crazy, BTW.
Man. I gotta share this. 3 guys neg repped me - one wrote exactly this:
That is not only mean but ridiculous. If Evo wanted profit, it would be really easy to do so. They can charge 50 or even 80 bucks for registration and they will have pretty much the same number of entrants. Al of them would pay 50 extra dollars if oil or airlines rices go up a little anyway, so its much better to keep it at the community.
Now they’ve been working non-profit for a gazillion years, and working their asses off. Busy people like James Chen and Sirlin, even when Evo was way smaller. Ponder and Ink paid Evo out of their pockets and srk as well for years and years, losing a lot of money and time for the community, and now some smart ass, using their websire, very likely attending their tournaments, playing double elimination all weekend and what not, comes and gives a poor attempt of an accusation like this.
This is just idiotic. Why don’t you random whoever just gets out of SRK. Actually, I dare you to
be a man about it and identify yourself. But no, using their resources and talking shit about people is too easy for you, right. Why don’t you throw your on non-profit or for-profit tournament and provides a better experience for the players. Funny how Sabin could be so polite and you not only neg repped me, which is no biggie sincve I got pos or neg rep for practically every post I make here, but also dissed the guys that keep this thing running. Shame on you, unknown pal…
omg dude, get your facts straight before you blurb it out. The japanese’s dont give a damn too much about prize money. For example: D1GP doesnt even have a huge winning jackpot and the reason why most drifters still participate is because they love the sport and competition. You on the other hand say that SBO should have a huge jackpot for it to be a very good tournament. I dont know what the fudge you’ve been smoking for these past few days, but SBO competition is on another level compare to EVO. Since your a NOOBIE, you probably dont even know what the fudge your talking about. what a day, another noobie added to the list. :annoy:
Yeah. Japan hates food and cars. Sure. They all probably think exactly alike too… You’re a very sensitive man.
Now would YOU like next Evo to be single game single elimination teams with no decent prizes? Would YOU like it to take some of the most popular games out while at it? Remember that to be able to play a single game in the tourney you need to win the qualifiers against top players from around the world. Please convince us of how much better SBO is for the players.
About honor, you do remember we are discussing freaking videogames, right? Just checking…
you’d be surprised how much it costs to travel from one end of japan to the other. it costs money to drive on highways in japan, more depending on how far you’re going, assuming you have a car. if not, a bullet train ride can cost upwards of 500 dollars. so depending on how far away from tokyo you live, it can easily run you more than it costs anyone to travel to evo.
This is amazing. It’s like your post button is some sort of magic neg-rep-your-self button. Remarkable! Are you some sort of Wizard?
But seriously, I don’t get whats hard to fathom about not caring much about the money. We get people flying out to Vegas and renting hotel rooms and spending all types of money to be at EVO. The majority of these people have really little chance of finishing in the money, and viritually zero chance of finishing high enough to cover travel expenses. And for the most part I’m sure people accept this. They’re going to compete with the best, get better and have fun.
At least with SBO you’re probably not going to blow a huge wad of cash to just enter a tournament you might not be able to recoup costs for. It ain’t about not liking cars and food (You ain’t going to get a hot ride for 5,000 dollar anyways… Besides, who drives in Japan? Isn’t it cramped and gas is a million dollars a gallon?), it’s about the fact that the glory is the motivating factor. The cash is just the lovely bonus.
5,000 dollars is a lot of money and it’s great that EVO gives it to us… but at the same time, 5,000 dollars isn’t all that much in the scheme of life. If someone cares more about the money then the glory they shouldn’t be playing Fighting Games. They should be playing Counter Strike or something.
As for single elimination and all that crap, thats just how they roll there. EVERY tournament is like that in Japan pretty much. Frankly I like that we don’t have to do that. But at the same time, with the size of tournaments over there, they need to keep the number of matches down.
marvel was on american cabinets, it was double elimination and everyone that wanted to compete/play casuals could, all the machines were on free play and you didnt have to qualify to get in there. the only time a majority of the people were just watching was when it was the finals for each game, like any tourney. sure there were a lot of people there that didnt play games but liked anime, but games were in a seperate room away from the anime con. the japanese from japan speaking japanese probably was about as close at txshowdown got to sbo. kthx.
I actually got pos rep for every single post here, but my first post got neg rep from like 12 guys. Some prem members just like to help each other when hating on somebody, and probably share the link or so. I like to get all these feedbacks actually. Much better than avoiding to say what you think in fear that somebody will not like it. If the rep system fills you with fear and you are always posting neutral boring stuff, than it has pretty much failed IMHO.
And you just missed my points. The ridiculously small cash prize is only one of the problems. The single game single elimination is IMO much worse, and has nothing to do with the size of the tournament, not at SBO. SBO has 32 teams at its finals. Evo has hundreds of people for every game and manages to do double elimination tourneys. My other criticism is about the team format. There’s no way to know who played better that day, and its much easier to win by getting lucky or to lose by getting unlucky than at other tournaments. Game selection is also worse than Evo, although they can’t help because of the sponsorship thing, and most people not being able to play saves a lot of money and allows the show to be pretty better, but it sucks for most people who would rather play a lot instead of watch a lot.
There’s not a single guy here so far that vouched for Evo to follow the SBO model, which would actually be much easier to run now that they have Toyota’s money. So far, everybody agrees with me, but for some crazy japanophile reason many people still write posts disagreeing just for the sake of it.
Yeah. That was the greatest team only tournament inside an anime convention in Texas of all times. Seriosuly though, what’s your point? Is Texas supposed to be better or worse when it gets so much different from SBO?
I like the way SBO runs things simply because it’s different. They’re not about the money (unless they REALLY need the small cash they give them). I also like the team format because it forces people to work with other people on matchups and what not. It seems like it’d be fun to play in. Still can’t deny the fact that the Japanese beat us for free over here in multiple games using our tournament format. SBO doesn’t necessarily pick out the number 1 overall player each year but…then again almost nothing in Japan is looked at by who single handedly performed the best. A lot of things in Japan are very team oriented. Especially in the work place. They are more concerned about how well you can work with others as a team than how well you do by yourself. You dont necessarily need an annual tournament to see who is clearly destroying everyone in Japan since they are playing all the time any ways and that information really doesn’t matter to them.
Maybe it is bad for the players but…they just simply dont think the way we do over here about tournaments so the way SBO runs doesn’t necessarily seem bad to them. They look like they’re having way too much fun each year to even think that they dont like the way things run. Which is really what it should be about.
Oh and yeah…I’m pretty sure black people never talk to cops.