What do YOU do on knock down?

[Squirtguns]

1. meaty jab/OS sweep

2. cs. mk/ bnb

3. max range meaty cr. mp/mp. drill.

[GreyQ]

You’re reading into this way too much. There’s no part of the game’s system that statistically gives someone an advantage or bonus by knocking the opponent down. It’s all meta-game.

…
Can set up for mixups such as ambiguous jumping cross-ups, tick throws, or frame traps

Basically, the knocked down player has to either guess with the pressure applied to them and/or deal with disadvantageous positioning.

This may be an unhelpful/wrong way of thinking about it, but it seems to make sense to estimate how much health a positional advantage is worth. For instance I was watching some Zangeif/Dhalsim match where Zangief lost 25% (?) of his health and Dhalsim was at 100% but Zangief had walked Dhalsim into a corner. The commentator said that that Gief’s positional advantage was worth losing the health. Or in chess it might be worth a pawn (health) to firmly establish a rook on an open file (positional advantage). So it seems that knocking someone down ought to be roughly equivalent to some amount of health, in addition to whatever damage they took from the attack or throw that knocked them down.

About how much health it’s worth, suppose some character (say, Ibuki) had a 50/50 mixup on Rose like the kind you mentioned above, and if successful it did, say, 200 dmg and reset the position. If unsuccessful the position was equalized. Then it seems that a untechable knockdown would be worth 200*(50% + 25% + 12.5% + …) = 200*50%/(1-50%) = 200 dmg for Ibuki. But this is just an example, I don’t think it’s possible to actually calculate it, but there might be some useful rule of thumb.

Why does this matter? I dunno lol. Maybe cr hp x spiral seems like a better punish than a throw because it does 200 dmg. But if an untechable knockdown is worth 100hp somehow, then the throw would do the equivalent of 140+100=240 dmg and could be the better punish. It could just be a handy rule of thumb. Another “use” is that a knockdown seems to be worth more to some chars than others, and it doesn’t seem to be worth that much to Rose, so it would nice to have some succinct way of communicating that, as in “a midscreen Ibuki knockdown vs Rose is worth 100+, but vice versa only 40 maybe”. Anyway I’ll shutup on the subject now lol, ty for the response.

[Trike]

But this thread isn’t about whether or not to go for a hard knockdown as opposed to straight damage on a punish. Rose pretty much always is going to want to go for a full punish instead of a hard knockdown anyway. It’s just a list of options for when you actually knock them down. Not every knockdown situation is from a punish. Sometimes you get a sweep in as a poke, sometimes you tick throw them if they’re not falling for your frame traps.

But to answer that, no, Rose doesn’t benefit much from a hard knockdown as much as a character like Ken would, but a knockdown is always an advantage.

[Acku]

This may be an unhelpful/wrong way of thinking about it, but it seems to make sense to estimate how much health a positional advantage is worth. For instance I was watching some Zangeif/Dhalsim match where Zangief lost 25% (?) of his health and Dhalsim was at 100% but Zangief had walked Dhalsim into a corner. The commentator said that that Gief’s positional advantage was worth losing the health. Or in chess it might be worth a pawn (health) to firmly establish a rook on an open file (positional advantage). So it seems that knocking someone down ought to be roughly equivalent to some amount of health, in addition to whatever damage they took from the attack or throw that knocked them down.

About how much health it’s worth, suppose some character (say, Ibuki) had a 50/50 mixup on Rose like the kind you mentioned above, and if successful it did, say, 200 dmg and reset the position. If unsuccessful the position was equalized. Then it seems that a untechable knockdown would be worth 200*(50% + 25% + 12.5% + …) = 200*50%/(1-50%) = 200 dmg for Ibuki. But this is just an example, I don’t think it’s possible to actually calculate it, but there might be some useful rule of thumb.

Why does this matter? I dunno lol. Maybe cr hp x spiral seems like a better punish than a throw because it does 200 dmg. But if an untechable knockdown is worth 100hp somehow, then the throw would do the equivalent of 140+100=240 dmg and could be the better punish. It could just be a handy rule of thumb. Another “use” is that a knockdown seems to be worth more to some chars than others, and it doesn’t seem to be worth that much to Rose, so it would nice to have some succinct way of communicating that, as in “a midscreen Ibuki knockdown vs Rose is worth 100+, but vice versa only 40 maybe”. Anyway I’ll shutup on the subject now lol, ty for the response.

That’s good thinking. And it actually unveils a reason why Rose is a best mid-tier. She has very little direct benefit of a knockdown. If you play Rose as a zoning character, well, that will be your option: regain your optimal position and do as you were doing before you knocked the opponent down.
There are options for Rose to apply some pressure on wake-up, but none are high-chance (vortex-like) or high-damaging (eg Ryu meaty into EX hurricane) options. Her cross-up is too standard to get jump-in damage, her BnB are too weak to do much damage, her throws are just throws.

If you would count chance vs damage and see what it’s worth, it’s worth something, but pitted against some possible reversals hitting you into possible ultra, well, you’d often rather go for the safe route and just reposition and dominate from your usual ground-game. I often throw LP sparks only on wake-up, being confident in my poking/zoning afterwards, instead of risking getting hit by reversals and being the target of wake-up tactics myself

It would be funny to do the math though. How many damage does each option do? How many chance of hitting it? How much damage does the counter to it do to you? Rose would be at bottom-tier, I’m sure*

• except for opponents that fail reversals against moves like SC.MK or C.MK

[noround_3]

spam them with jabs(cr.lp sc.lp) like there’s no tommorow

[Heavy_Mental]

I like to get in and wreck face (though Rose isn’t exactly the character to do that with but regardless…) so I typically go for crossup into frame-traps or tick-throws depending on what I feel like my opponent will do. Reversal me if you dare bitch.