What are YOU hoping will be included in the inevitable release of Guilty Gear XXX?

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
61

i don’t get that at all dude.

The only reason i was even talking about marvel is because the other guy dissed it.

If you got gg sucks from that , then shrug, your problem not mine.

the whole reason i even mention the consistent champ thing IS because the other guy was talking mess.

The same way you defend a game you know takes skill and alot of people dedicate alot of time to be genuinely good and earn their wins, the same way i defended marvel.

Just because i think negative penalty is a bad idea and because it has no consistent champ while i made a huge point about there being a consistent champ in marvel (to proves it’s not a mash fest) doesn’t mean i think gg is bad,

i just personally don’t like how the engine works so much against defensive play, usually there are only 1 or 2 anti defense systems (guard meter, no air block, ect.) this one has alot of them:

Faultless Defense
Dizzy meter goes up when you block (i think)
No tech throws
Negative Penalty which makes you dizzy easier and takes away your meter.

they did a excellent job at balancing the game but in my eyes it would’ve been better if they weren’t so bent out of shape about keepaway which is how it came off to me.

And yes you do get negative penalty by staying back and chucking fireballs, which means that eventually you do have to rush in, not just attack but go to the other side of the screen which is soemthing no keep away player ever ever does unless he’s part rush down aswell (sentinal) or his body is a projectile (omega red).

62

Again, if you can’t see why your own posts IMPLY (this is the key word) as much, you need to think a little more about how others would respond.

…ok, never mind the fairly wide variety of defensive options. You seem to completely ignore character and move/string-specific defensive counters and focus only on sub-systems.

Uhm, how does FD discourage rushing when it’s mainly used for defense?

Dizzy doesn’t increase just from blocking. If your guard gauge rises high enough to flash, however, any normal hit is treated as a counter, which adds a major bonus to stun ability.

Throws go both ways as well, as reversal throws and option select FD/throw is very important and quite powerful.

Negative Penatly doesn’t have any effect on dizzy either. It does inflict a meter building penatly for about 10 seconds, though.

No offense, but…you really need to learn the game a little better. In reality, Negative Penalty just prevents you from turtling by standing completely still and avoiding all contact, which doesn’t really do that much good to begin with. I perfectly understand how Negative Penalty can bug people, as it’s the kind of sub-system that isn’t necessary if the game itself rewards dynamic offense and defense to begin with. It’s a lazy form of balance, really.

63

Alright dude,

but faultless defense prevents chip, which kinda hampers projectile based characters that rely on chip.

You can’t block ground moves in the air without faultless defense so it’s kinda a moot point, i’m not saying that you should be able to block all moves in the air cuz that would be broken but really it’s not something that really rewards defense.

My friend plays guilty gear alot and he said negative penalty increases dizzy, it’s still my bad for not reading up on it myself.

Instant Defense , Burst and dead angle attacks are meant for defense so i’ll give it that much i’m not sure but does instant defense prevent chip damage (i’m really not sure) if it does that kinda works against projectile based pressure aswell, Burst is good but still works for people who tend to get hit, most keep away players would try to avoid that because it takes what?, 20 projectiles that your opponent eats to equal up to one combo your opponent can dish out, you won’t win by being hit when you rely on a small ammount of chip to give you a lead.

And roman cancelling, the dizzy system, no tech throw , negative penalty , it all seems a little skewed against defense.

But maybe it’s not as bad as it looks, I used to think negative penalty increased dizzy aswell but now i know it doesnt’ it’s not THAT bad but it’s still something i rather do without.

And as far as implying goes, i already told you that’s not how i see it, if you want to keep taking it that way go right ahead but i’ll just tell you right now, i know it takes skill to play guilty gear and is by no means a bad game.

64

I think Marvel’s strong chip ability is making you biased in this regard. Only special moves and supers do chip damage to begin with, and only a few do a noticable amount of chip anyway.

When you’re low on life, however, chip damage definitely comes into play, and FD becomes a double-edged sword. While it does prevent chip damage, FD also INCREASES blockstun. This means a number of moves are actually safer when blocked using FD than they would be otherwise.

Also, to claim projectile-based characters suffer is totally false, because the push-out from FD doesn’t work effectively against projectiles. If you use FD against a projectile and they attack you at the same time, they won’t get pushed out so long as the projectile is still being blocked. So this means they can force you to waste meter using FD to avoid getting chipped AND often have the option of attacking you or sending out more projectiles.

Again, Marvel seems to have spoiled you. Why shouldn’t you have to FD ground-based anti-airs? As you said yourself, if you could air block everything, it’d be pretty stupid 'cause the mixup game would be severely weakened. And why does this fact alone not reward defense? You have other options in the air you know, and blocking in the air is generally the best option vs offensive options when safe 'cause it can give you better counters and eliminates low/overhead mixups.

I have never seen or experienced anything that indicates it does, so I’m thinking he’s mis-informed.

And backdash, and defensive throwing, and character-specific defensive abilities. Knowing matchup-specific counters is a huge part of this game, so it’s not surprising you think defense is a lot weaker than it really is. Takes a long time to learn all the options you really have.

Instant Block does not prevent chip damage, it just decreases block stun and push-out. And why the obsession with projectile characters? No, you can’t sit back and spam projectiles, but so what? People found ways around traps in Marvel too.

…what?

First off, most projectiles can give you some kind of combo option, and almost all are very, very good when it comes to space control. Second, why is the fact that you can’t get some chip damage and just run away for the win a bad thing?

65

I don’t think I’ve ever seen negative penalty in a real match.

66

let me just say,

marvel hasn’t “spoiled” me and i take offense to that, i really dont’ like the direction some fighting games are taking when it comes to defense.

and my comment about burst was meant that good keep away players rely on hardly ever being hit because then it evens out or worse, that’s why burst is good for defense but at the same time doesn’t help in the goal of keeping your opponent away

although I now think it is pretty useful for a keepaway player.

(warning: rant)

In my opinion :

Fighting games are supposed to be fun:

Yes

Is fighting a keepaway player fun:

for some : No

Should we take out keepaway:

No

I actualy find it much funner when keepaway is weakened, i don’t want some air tight trap that i could do all day and beat everyone without thinking.

That’s why i like the guard meter, that’s why i might even go as far as liking faultless defense.

Even though, you commit yourself , put yourself at risk of being kicked in the face for 1 damage and then your telilng me that the person can just press 2 buttons (?) and my 1 damage has been rejected.

But i could even live with that, it just adds to the challenge, and if i’m not mistaken can’t you NOT be killed by chip damage (i’m not really sure)

Most characters have half life comboes, and dust loops? , yet the system’s only rule is don’t stay on one side of the screen , you must rush down , MUST and that’s all you can do you can’t choose not to or you lose your meter, but hell i could even do that, now that i know you don’t get dizzy aswell so thanks for your info but i still think sammy is queer for doing that but that’s just my opinion and if you think otherwise feel free to say so.

I think it’s pretty undeniable though that sammy is neglecting a huge part of the “system”

viscant defined most of the fighters in fighting games (or at least marvel) into 3 categories

:

Pixies

Giants

Keep away characters

Keep away characters function way differently then the other 2, the others rely on getting close and landing hits while they apply pressure and get miniscule damage but it’s virtually guarenteed to do damage and they can do it a range where the other characters can’t attack.

Am I obsessed with keepaway characters? No

Am i pissed they are basically non existant in a game that’s supposed to be balanced and have a character for everyone?

hell yes, and yea they have good keep away games (venom/dizzy) but they have to rush in , and that’s something that i think should be the choice of the player and not a requirement by the system but that’s just me.

67

Breath Zig Breath

I suck at GG and I dont get Negative Pentalty playing a shitty ass May. Ive never seen it happen.

68

I’m just saying, you seem HEAVILY biased as everything you say appears to have been heavily influenced by how Marvel players. You keep complaining about Guilty Gear, yet almost every sub-system in the series is based on shit from older games.

And honestly, you don’t seem to know or appreciate the number of defensive options available in the game.

So play it like that. Who says you can’t play keep-away in Guilty Gear? I certainly didn’t.

You can play keep-away for free in some matchups, while in others you can’t. It’s all matchup-specific, really. You’re just bitching based on generalized assumptions.

Yet by pressing those 2 buttons, they make your projectile safer at the expense of their meter, giving you plenty opportunity to throw out another projectile.

Chip damage can and will kill you. Seriously dude, I can understand if you don’t know the game that well, but quit making stupid generalizations as if you really did.

Only Sol and Baiken have Dust loops. This may seem like nitpicking, but being blatently wrong on so many things makes it hard for me to take your argument seriously.

You don’t have to rush, though. You just can’t avoid contact. If they try to rush you and you knock them away while keeping your distance, the game isn’t going to penalize you.

What about Fortress Testament? Or Fortress Eddie? Or runaway I-No? Or turtle Johnny?

You claim it should be the choice of the player and accuse Sammy of making that impossible, yet the characters with strong zoning ability and projectiles can and are played in keep-away and chip-heavy styles by choice. You just don’t know the game well enough to have seen that.

69

i’m quite positive you must rush in

as in dash in,

you can’t keep your distance , but maybe it is like you say (make contact), maybe i don’t know about guilty gear though.

I guess i should check into it, i still think negative penalty is overall pretty gay but i should check into it before i go any further.

edit: false alarm

70

It’s exactly as I said. If you don’t dash forwards AT ALL but still make physical contact, the system won’t penalize you. Just how using backdash a lot won’t penalize you on its own.

71

LOL did he just get banned or did he just change his title to say that?

72

OMG TEH BANNAGE OWNS ALL…

…he didnt know what he was talking bout anyway

73

I think Raven might be a playable character. Isn’t I-No dead though? I remember in two out of her three endings she was either killed or consealed.

I’m also hoping to see…are you ready for this!!! :confused:

ANJI GO TOP TIER :tup: