We need more ST players in Seattle

David Sirlin blogging about the rebalanced mode in ST HD.

Check out the cool screenshot, ooo.

When are you granted a reversal frame? Are you only given the reversal frame when you’re getting up (wake up), coming out of block stun, and coming out of hit stun? Can you do a reversal move on the first frame when you’re ‘recovering’ from another move?

When you ARE given a reversal frame, only specials performed give you the onscreen message informing you that you performed a “reversal move”. But can you do anything else on the reversal frame and still get the benefit of the single frame of invincibility? I think Beasley told Airthrow and myself that the person being ticked always has the priority with the counter throw, since the counter throw is being input on the reversal frame. So if you input a throw on the reversal frame and the opponent has an attack out (like a crouching roundhouse), would your invincibility save you? Would the throw beat the attack that’s already out? Provided that the opponent is within throw range, that is.

I didn’t know reversals had invincibility frames, I thought it was just the moves themselves.

reversals don’t give you any extra invincibility, all a reversal message means is that you’ve gone directly from hitstun, blockstun, or standing up into a special or super

a throw input on the reversal frame will always win because the opponent never has any chance to hit you, seeing as you’ve gone straight from a non-hittable state into a throw

That was how I understood it to be. The reversal frame is the first frame where you’re allowed to input a move, but it exists as the last frame of hit/block stun, or the last frame prior to when you actually wake up. So if you were to input an invincible special (like a DP), you’d go directly from an invincible (waking up) or un-throwable (hit/block stun) state to the invincible move. This would prevent tick attempts. In some cases, it’ll also prevent okiseme.

But most of my questions from before have still gone answered. I’ll bullet point so as to be more clear.

  • Are block/hit stun and wake up the only times when you’re given a reversal frame?*

  • You only get the “reversal move” message if you do a special/super, but are you allowed to input any move on the reversal frame?

  • A throw performed on the reversal frame (provided that you can throw on the reversal frame) will always beat any tick attempt. But if you’re waking up and the opponent has a hitbox overlapping where you will get up, will a reversal throw beat the attack?

I ask the last one because Alex told me at the last tournament that a reversal throw couldn’t beat and attack that’s already out. Actually, that’s what prompted me to ponder on the issue of reversal frames.

*While doing frame caps for umbrellastyle’s never to be released hit box displayer, I noticed that you’re allowed to input a normal during the last 2-3 frames of a previous normal. That is to say, if you hold a normal button prior to the last normal move finishing, it’ll come out as soon as the previous normal finishes. I couldn’t tell whether this was the case with specials since I couldn’t perform motions while frame advancing. Even if you don’t get invincibility, it would be interesting to know just how many frames of the previous move you have to buffer your next move.

I believe you can also get a reversal message after landing from a jump, or from doing one special move to another

I don’t see why you wouldn’t be able to, but why you would ever need to do a reversal normal is beyond me

yes, every time

Did I really lie to you like that? Are you sure it was me who said it?

Reversals aren’t really anything special, it’s important to go from a defensive position to an offensive one as early as possible, but I’m not sure what you mean by reversal normals… it’d just be another normal with no special properties, just like all the other moves.

If you went from downed to a “reversal normal move”, then you’d have a hit box on the same frame as if you stood up like normal, you are no more invulnerable doing a “reversal normal” than you’d be if you just stood up…your vulnerable hitbox would appear on the exact same frame, and the regular startup frames for the normal should apply…

Nate and Elias should watch some of the vids that nohoho recent put up on his blog. Noguchi was wrecking people with Fei Long. He trampled KKY’s Dhalsim. But then, far more is possible when you’re playing 1 game sets.

Fei Long’s too fuckin’ badass.

EDIT: OMG tick super. :lol:

Fei Long’s gonna be a lot better come HD Remix time. Half circle chicken wings and no more accidental jumps? That’s a free guard combo.

Then again, Nate will be much happier than you, for Zangief will be god tier with half circle back>forward motions for 360 grabs instead of having to restrict grabs to jump ins, wake ups, or blockstun moves into 360.

Yeah I think that’s lame. That move is too good to be a simple fucking qcf or hcf. Not gonna be playing that game though, so it doesn’t matter to me.

I am undecided on the motion changes.

Fuck changing the 360 motion though, if you can’t 360 you don’t deserve to do that much damage.

wait if they change the motion how will hawk do safe grab?

I hate the motion changes

they did it because regular chumps can’t handle the ST precision :frowning:

I am down with changing the window in which you can input moves. I believe it is 8-15 frames for dragon punches that ST randomizes, which is why piano inputs are encouraged. Making it constant gives scrubs a better chance and less excuses. But what the fuck is a hcb,f motion for an spd? That is blasphemy.

exactly! they could have tweaked inputs without messing with the integrity of the game

I just don’t know what I think about remix mode anymore

it’ll be easy to crush the fake Giefs…i mean…really…this just makes me THAT MUCH STRONGER since i can whip out the the SNK GENERAL COMMAND THROW JOYSTICK MANOUVER out with just about the same consistency as i can whip out the ORIGINAL SPD COMMAND…

I couldn’t BELIEVE they changed the 360 motions, it’s ridiculous. They should just increase the windows… IMO 10 frames for DP’s PERIOD or so, this 8-15 randomness is kinda stupid.

But I won’t lie, I was glad Hooligan throw and Chicken kick were made easier, I bet I can be more competitive with Cammy with that.

id be happier with reduced damage on successful connected SPD if SPD was done with the alternate motions.

I could see that. SPD with easy-mode input+oldskool damage=no one will play ST Remix vers…