The reason is that he can’t control the neutral game well on his own and without some kind of assist has very, very few ways to open up the opponent. You are basically asking them to let you kill them. I honestly would take both Nova or Frank as anchor over RR haha.
I can’t really think what you could do other than hope they air dash into a log trap or something. You can’t teleport unless your opponent screws up massively, so if they jump you basically have to attempt to air throw them with RR’s mediocre option select H. You can’t even reliably set up an unblockable without an assist because they could just mash out of it.
Pretty sure bear trap loops endlessly in XF too haha, not that it matters much, you can kill anyway.
I don’t really know how you are getting zoned out easily as RR, that is one thing I think he is very well defended against. A lot of zoning patterns, when you figure them out have a hole where you can burrow and punish. Log trap also effectively clears the screen and with RR’s insane mobility, you shouldn’t be in one place long enough to get shot by most zoners. Magneto can be real problem though, for sure.
I don’t think you guys are giving the notion a fair shot; there’s plenty of anchors out there who are make anchor solely for their cover assist (think hawkeye), and are terrible Anchors. RR’s got a fantastic assist and more comeback potential than some of them do. Damage becomes less of an issue due to X-factor boosts/loops, he can burn all that excess meter via traps (and try opening up midscreen via Wild Ripper xx Trap, which hitconfirms usually and is safe against most of the cast), he can set up his own mixups via TK Shots, and can cover space well if they try to get in.
He’s not a perfect anchor, far from it. There are others better suited for the job. He also loses some of his potential by being an anchor, but that applies to almost every anchor. I think there’s a lot more there than you’re giving credit for though.
how does he set up mixups with TK shots? You mean fullscreen spitfire teleport? That’s legit, but you can’t really rely on it because they will RYTSD when they figure out that’s your plan. How else does lone RR open up his opponents? I can see how you could be annoying and hard to hit, but I don’t see RR’s comeback potential, at least with the tools I know of. Maybe you know something he can do to open up opponents I don’t, I recently figured out a couple of aerial hitconfirms (kind hard though) that would help somewhat, but you still need your opponent to be doing something that isn’t blocking. Although I have some option select throws I’ve been working on too (they get a bit predictable once your opponent knows what they look like though due to rocket skates telegraphing the setups)
I really don’t see how log trap is good enough to put him in 3rd either, I can see how you could for example justify putting Sentinel 3rd because Drones are just absolutely freaking amazing for everyone and Doom, because all his assists are great. But RR is probably even worse than Sentinel alone and his assists don’t even match up to those.
I tend to set up in case they come in. I play a bit of a more hit and run, and stay in once I hit tactic. Hsienko can throw out a gong and there’s nothing you can do about it. Then start chucking stuff across the screen. It recovers faster than burrow, so she can throw on reaction. It’s hard enough to jump over a gong to go in for a punish since it’s so huge.
Zero + Sentinel has Hadangeki for days until they see a teleport then just let go that buster, aside from just teleporting and lightning / buster everywhere all day.
This and other reasons is why I say he’s not great in anchor spot. Hawkeye is mediocre in anchor spot, but his assist is freaking awesome to almost every cast member. As opposed to Raccoon that has a “mediocre+” assist and terrible for anchor. I’ve given him that spot for a long time, but I think he shines better in the 2nd spot. If you’ve figured out how to open people up that I haven’t figured out, let me know. Because right now, he wins because a lot of people don’t know how to block high against him, which will be figured out soon enough. Again, maybe I’m just horrible with him and are playing him wrong.
I think Rocket Raccoon is best on point. Anchor Raccoon has too many unfavorable situations and 2nd Raccoon has to deal with incoming mixup shenanigans. I usually just play him and point and its been working out pretty well.
It sounds like you are staying still, which is probably the problem. RR doesn’t have the greatest keepaway, his projectiles are too slow for that. Hsien Ko should not be a problem at all, it should be the other way around, Hsien Ko should not be able to touch you, you should be all around the screen while she can do nothing but TK gong or walk in your general direction. Hsien Ko is actually fairly decent up close, the reason she is so bad is because she simply has no mobility, RR has a lot, abuse that.
Zero is always going to be a problem, I don’t really know what to do in that matchup either haha, I honestly usually just lay a Mad Hopper while he’s moving and hope he command dashes onto it or something, I also throw logs when I feel safe enough. Zero just shuts off the screen for RR, it becomes very difficult to do anything.
Hawkeye is also more than a mediocre anchor haha, he’s not the best but he’s pretty damn good. It’s probably his most common position.
No no no no, Hawkeye is a -terrible- anchor. He can only get respectable damage off loops (and even then it’s lackluster), and hitting you with gimlet requires you to press buttons. You guys think Rocket Raccoon can’t open people up? Lol, you’ve clearly never tried to use hawkeye anchor against somebody who’s smart enough to just up-back the X factor if they have a lead and laugh at his inability to do anything.
I really don’t see the need for examples like “Rocket Raccon can’t do anything against zero + sentinel drones by himself” either. Ignoring the fact that if an opponent still has Zero (a point character) and Sentinel and all you have is RR means you musta screwed up pretty bad, there’s -lots- (nearly all in fact) good anchors who can’t do anything against that. Heck, there are -teams- who can’t do anything against that.
If you want to make arguments against RR in any position, there’s always going to be opportunities/points that have merit for it sure. But that applies to a lot of characters, and while RR may not have a command grab or foot dives or whatever, he has so many tools that give him potential to come back compared to other limited, straightforward characters. Again, not saying he’s a great anchor, but he can make do with it.
As for the assist, there are advantages/disadvantages to triple arrows VS pendulum. An argument easily could be made for either being superior, but honestly I’d give the edge to pendulum because 10 durability helps edge out most neutral game assists.
I know this is just not true, he can kill the majority of the cast meterless off of any hitconfirm in x factor, 1 meter for the highest health characters. You can loop H > net arrow a lot after the first air series.
Anchor Hawkeye doesn’t even need to open his opponent up, he does crazy chip damage and the opponent is basically not going to be playing during that time anyway. He is better at holding a win than making a full comeback though.
Arrows do so much more for the neutral game and for more characters than Pendulum. Pendulum is kind of unsafe to just use because of how vulnerable Rocket is, really it’s best uses seem to be in resets or by disguising the fact you are even using it with super jumps or something. It has other situational uses like making unsafe blockstrings safe etc, but triple arrows could’ve done the same easier really.
As an assist, log trap just isn’t fast enough to clear the screen either like on point, so really it’s an entirely offensive assist that requires you to be at advantage already and there is no trick to blocking it, so the opponent has to mess up too get hit by it in most circumstances.
I just want some example of what you would actually do with RR as an anchor haha, I can see getting a kill off of running full screen and crossing up with a TK spitfire, but that is very easy to spot when you know it could be coming and other than that, with no assist to lock down/control space, not much is stopping the opponent from simply taking to the sky. He can’t effectively lock down even with X factor either, unless you can force a bear trap block on the ground and his chip isn’t as great as other characters.
Where I can see some relevance is that he does counter some common anchor characters like Phoenix and is amazing at stalling out opponents X factor with Mad Hopper + burrow and general maneuverability. So he is great at anti-comeback, but his own comeback potential is pretty abysmal as far as I can currently see.
EDIT: Basically, I think if you are making a team and RR’s optimal position on that team is anchor, something went a bit odd during the building process. In the team you mentioned earlier, it would seem that either of the other characters would have been a better anchor, because… well they are both fantastic anchors. RR also levels up frank arguably easier than Nova and you will still have that Nova assist for Frank.
How I would run that team would be RR/Frank/Nova
Nova assist isn’t super amazing for rocket, but it can be annoying and adds another dimension to your offense. Shopping cart is pretty fantastic for RR, you have a great lock down for unblockables and a horizontal assist for ground control and left/rights. RR can get Frank an easy level 5 for 2 meters and then you have lvl5 Frank with both Pendulum and Nova overhead assist. At the end, you still have Nova, probably with some levels unless you used a lot of Mad Hoppers or something, to clean up. Pretty obnoxious character in X factor and at least his red health doesn’t go to waste haha.
“He is better at holding a win than making a full comeback though” is a roundabout way of saying “he sucks at making a comeback.” Pretty much everybody can hold a win (guard canceling to punish, playing runaway, whatever). And everybody can kill in X-factor, but it’s how well you can open them up (which hawkeye is severely found wanting), and how quickly (also found wanting). His chip game isn’t even that good; he can force you to block 1 volley of S. h xx triple arrow or net arrow, then you get a chance to get out. Chip anchors are more along the lines of Arthur/Dorm/Akuma where they can readily -kill- a team on chip, not “ooo, that tickles.” Hawkeye anchor relies on your point characters to use his good assist to do damage, then let him do light cleanup with gimlet xx X-factor >> kill one character. If your first two don’t do any work you’re as good as lost. Ran Spencer/Wesker/hawkeye for two months or so, saw the problem, put back in Akuma. haven’t looked back. If you want a cover projectile assist/anchor, use Arthur.
Pendulum has startup sure, but its neutral game garners respect. As long as it gets out (which again, I’ll admit it can be beaten. Beams in particular tend to hit RR out of it, but most arrows etc do not), it beats almost every projectile cover assist and often hits the assist. Great for happy birthdays. The wallbounce makes hitconfirms pretty much guaranteed. As for opening them up for it, Nova’s great for that. All 3 Cenutrion rushes, Rocket punches, Box dash H, and super jump down forward dash + assist all hit confirm. It also makes Nova’s ridiculously unsafe Centurion & rocket punches safe and provides opportunities to mixup. Frank can do similar openings with Barrel roll + Tools L or even bottle/zombie toss. scaling is practically nonexistent. Neither character has a need for their wallbounce.
RR/Frank/Nova is no good because if RR dies before leveling up Frank/Nova don’t have good leveling options unless you tag Nova in. Nova/Frank/RR on the other hand always gives frank potentials to level. Nova can get him to 4/5, RR can easily get him to 3 if he hasn’t used the assist, and even if he has can still use 2 bars and do it that way (and fully use both bars, not intentionally whiffing). If the order somehow becomes RR/Frank, plenty of options there too. The whole reason the team came about is I needed an anchor for Nova/Frank and RR fits the criterion best; can use excess meter, has (two) great cover assists, has multiple ways to level and (in my opinion) has some comeback potential. Lot more synergy there than you’d think too, I wish I had a video of my level 1 Frank >> level 3 Frank >> inescapable (on most of the cast) reset >> level 4 Frank >> reset again setup, it’s fun.
And to re-iterate, I’m not saying RR’s a great anchor. I’m not saying he’s top 10 anchor or whatever. What I am saying is his versatility gives him some options, he has several characteristics (low damage, ways to use excess meter, etc) that lends himself to benefit from X-factor/anchor positions. He can wear the shoes even if they aren’t his best fit. That’s all.
Well, no. There are people who DHC out, and keep rocking that 2nd player. Or you have people like Marn who plays Zero second. There are always situations where this happens.
The reason why Hawkeye isn’t a favorable anchor is that, you burn xfactor early, you’re screwed. Because people can also xfactor and upback if they’re in the lead. He’s really got no ways to open people up. Chip damage can only go so far. Or like the other characters, I’m just horrible w/ Hawkeye.
That being said, I’ve been running Raccoon anchor and I like him a lot better than Hawkeye. He’s got great mobility to get around. As Zansam said, he’s not a GREAT anchor, but if you’re like me and can’t use top tier, he’s a good option. Assists make him 10x better, but he’s not useless without them. Most people for now don’t deal with the wall of j.S, and you can convert that to a full combo. Facing a character like Taskmaster for their anchor, you can burrow, their j.M arrows, or just burrow in place. You just have to be a little bit more creative since his health isn’t great, but like Tomo said, his mobility options are good, so make use of them.
I actually don’t like Nova anchor. I would rather Nova be on point on that team. Especially if you’re stuck with Frank / RR, you can make use of THC for level ups, roll + log shenanigans, etc. Not really many useful things with Frank / Nova.
I should try out Arthur on my team LOL. I hate how he doesn’t have a dash.
do you think Akuma/Frank West/ RR is good? cause i think the teleport/log trap and the Roll/ log trap mix up works well, and an easy lvl 3/4 lvl up with frank.
any comments or criticisms?
Sounds okay to me. I would have the Frank on point with RR second (Log trap) and Akuma as anchor (Tatsu). Frank has the support of Tatsu to get in and negate zoning. Log Trap can be used to level up in combos and it can be used for a barrel roll corner mixup. There are several ways to level up Frank with this team. Kusoru is a good play to watch for stuff like that.
I have been running some fun teams with RR. Thor/RR(spit fire)/Vergil, Spider Man/Thor/RR(log trap) , Strider/Super Skrull/RR(spit fire). The way i like to use RR as anchor is set his big traps down close to the corner and lock your enemy down with that and shrapnel trap which gives RR one hit of super armor and teleporters can not get in on you for free IE Wesker,Vergil,Dante,Strider and put fire puddles on the ground and hide in them buy crouching as for Sent drones just do **multiple TK bear traps, they will eat up the drones like hungry hungry hippos **
Currently running hawkey, trip arrows, skrull, tenders, and rr, log. Out of three hawk is def best suited for point, opening keepaway works finne for most part, though skrull would probly best anchor i like to keep hi at 2 sumtimes burning xfc wit him. I love one on one matchups with rr. Which is why i love him at anchor plus xfc 3 and tiger knee spitfire is win.
Actually I’d say RR with triple arrow would probably work even better. Log Trap isn’t exactly going to do much for a low mobility character like Hawkeye anyway. Triple Arrow is one of RR’s best assists however.
Tiger Knee spitfire is pretty lackluster as a projectile, if you encounter anyone with a better projectile, you are going to hate the speed of them. A lot of common anchors are going to rip RR apart, it’s really just Phoenix, kind of Morrigan and some less common anchors that are good.
I’ve never really had a problem with phoenix or morrigan, his spring trap super usually has them hesitant to go in on him if you just stand on it, and if they zone, teleport under air grab into standard bnb, if they go into trap, even better, you just extended his combo.
I’ve been runnig Joe(Voo Voomerang)/RR(Log or Claymore, clay usually as anti Spencer)/Arthur(knives)
I feel RR is best at 2nd spot because he has a relatively safe DHC option (spring trap) which can lead into a zoning-randomly-go-rushdown gameplan, that and I think he needs the extra bit of meter (again, spring trap is part of my main zoning gameplan, just waitin’ for the mistake) and the arthur assist (although not as good as say Hawkeye’s) gives him a cross up.
His log trap and claymore are great for lame as fuck zoners which is why I use him. But I’ve also experimented with Tasky instead of arthur, and his up arrows cover most of RR’s weakness, which are flyers. If you can react fast enough I’ve been able to combo off of the arrows.
No, I meant RR is GOOD against Phoenix/kind of Morrigan He’s bad against just about everyone else with no assists
I agree he is best 1st/2nd. I like playing him 1st when I do, just because he can make good use of 2 assists, his DHCs don’t often lead into kills, but if you have a good setup for it then he can work 2nd pretty well, especially if the first character has a good assist for him. I’ve run Magneto/RR a bit and that works out pretty well, with Sentinel 3rd it can be an effective front loaded team.
Yeah I think the same way, all of his specials just have way too much recovery to not be backed up by an assist, maybe in XF3 you might be able to get away with murder by just going nuts.
Mags and Sentinel sound like good assists (flashy and explodey is RR’s camoflouge), and I forgot to mention this in my last post, but the reason why I don’t like him first is just the initial starting game. I either have to block insane mixups until I inevitably screw up, or I try something and get ToDed. If anybody has any thoughts on getting around this, I may have to rethink RR on point.
RR isn’t bad at beginning game shenanigans imo, his throws are really good so you can go with that and often a rocket skates backward > Log Trap will catch people who are not right next to you but being aggressive. Also just block + assist, depending on your assist can be effective.
Damn, Rocket Skates, I always forget about them unless I’m going for the ambiguous crossup. Yeah, that could work. As for making him point without destroying such a perfect midgets team, maybe VJ’s upper could work as a get off me assist, hmmm, time to troll the interwebs in experimental shit.
He’s bad against just about everyone else with no assists