Were arguing the same thing but in a different context. Youre simply stating that you can alter the timings to create a true 50/50, while I was just stating the outcomes of the setup based on the timing. To you it seemed like I was saying something one way and vice versa for myself.
Im one of the few regulars who hasnt gotten into a quote war with you and I plan to keep it that way. 
Fair enough.
We should have an unwritten rule that any setups with Akuma will naturally be difficult to execute or require frame specific timing, at least when discussing amongst ourselves.
Agreed. I was playing around with f.throw fs.hk and I wonder if thats going to be the go-to method of applying relatively safe pressure after the throw. I found this one setup against fei using that setup where you delay the divekick very late, like you would against Ryu, only problem is he can walk right under it.
I messed about with alternate safe setups about 8 months ago and found that forward throw, dashx1 into HK demonflip dive kick was a couple of frames too fast to connect. With the throw nerf I am thinking that may be a new safe setup against most of the cast.
I wont lie, I will miss lk tatsu, hk demonflip on cammy. Its such a dirty setup against her. Atleast we have a million other setups. A fun one I just started using is off of df throw, is using fs.fierce and masking 2 forward inputs before and after the normal and using x-up tatsu. If done right it doesnt look like you move forward at all and puts you in range for a very ambiguous x-up tatsu.
Sounds good, you do the divekick at the peak of the jump?
Can’t wait for the nerf bat to go final and hit us, at least iwe can keep exploring throw setups.
Which setup is this Nu?
Not sure I get it, you do like DF throw, slight step forward, fs fierce, another step forward and then x-up tatsu?
Personally, I giggled like a schoolgirl whenever I stuffed her DPs with this. :lol:
Luckily well still have dashx2 setups on the characters with slow reversals such as Bison, Honda, Juri, Rufus and characters with late wakeups like Rose, Deejay, Sim and Boxer. The others we will have to be alittle more crafty.
This was a setup Tokido debuted against Alioune at Shadaloo Showdown a year ago. It stuffs all cannon spikes. Its suppose to lose to EX spike but I’ve seen it whiff.
Yeah you mask the movements because the forward step looks like apart of the fs.fierce. The key is subtlely because you dont want them to notice the movements at all. I came up with this setup against my friend who plays Sakura and wont hesistate to do cr. fierce if your setup is anything less than meaty. I tried fs. fierce, step and he keyed in on it everytime and always hit me out of tatsu. This setup, he can never tell whats coming until hes getting crossed up. This same setup also sets up DF throw.
You’re right, though it’s really a pain in the neck that we have to check pretty much the majority of them to make sure they still work. Like OS tatsu against Bison.
Ah yeah, I remember now. Does the same thing as dash, dash, MK DF Divekikick iirc.
Does it stuff Sakura’s cr.HP? I mean, fs fierce, jump HK was a safejump against 5f (or was it 4?) reversals, by stepping forward slightly will you still be in time to hit meaty?
I believe OS tatsu will still work but it may not hit Bison out of crusher anymore. Im trying to remain optimistic. Who knows, the -2 could cause old OS’s that may have whiffed to hit.
Exactly
That im not sure of. With the right timing I think so. Her cr.fierce is strange because it actually moves her hurtbox forward and causes some things to whiff, for example a very deep demon palm. But the fs. fierce is a 4 frame safe jump. You can fs. fierce, step forward but it takes away ambiguity of the setup, which is why I created it, so I wouldnt get knocked out of x-up tatsu due to the tell tale forward step. Granted I could mix in a regular jump in fierce if he tried to anticipate the setup because of the step. I do believe both ways of doing this viable and a good mindgame in itself. I like my refined version of this because it can create the same mindgame but is much safer in my opinion.
With the throw recovery change (at least in the PC AE patches) you’re about to safe jump Sagat with f throw > dash once > mk flip dive kick.
So yeah, possibilities exist - particularly new ones. The only annoyance I can see is that cross-up based wakeup bullshit from forward throw now might be out.
Gamogo since you have the AE v2012beta patches, whats the fastest reversal you can safe jump? Id presume a 7frame reversal?
As I said before about the AE v2012 PC tweaks, the forward throw didn’t seem right to me and felt too slow, I couldn’t for the life of me safejump Cammy after forward throw x2dashes j.hk since she wakes up 2 frames slower (unless this is some weird wakeup animation invulnerability thing).
2 more weeks till the patch is released and a week before the final changes are announced, would be hilarious if Akuma got some more nerfs lol.
^ ya, listen to abandthatwasoncedecentbutnowsuckshorriblyband. The f throw tweaks feel a bit ‘off’ for lack of a better description.
From a previous post I made when tinkering:
Ok, so VS Sagat, forward throw > dash once > mk flip > dive kick is safe VS Sagat’s wakeup reversals. Interesting.
Same setup VS Yun:
lk dp = Akuma loses (in corner causes lk dp to whiff)
mk dp = Win + scores counter hit
hk dp = safe, causes hk dp to whiff
ex dp = Akuma loses
VS Cammy:
Same as Sagat, safejump.
VS Chun:
Same as Sagat, Cammy.
Better now lol
As for dive kick safejumps, I just hope that it’ll be possible someway to mix those up with cross over df palms, at least it’ll be a good mix up instead of the opponent just crouch blocking or backdashing a DF throw.
C’mon dude. Death Magnetic sucked. Only those who couldn’t muster true critical opinion gave it some leniency. If you consider Puppets, Justice or Black its just awful.
[S]I didn’t mind the Suicide and Redemption instrumental though[/S][S].[/S]
Don’t even get me started on this Lou Reed travesty. Sweet mother of shit. They’ve lost their fire man. Slayer on the other hand still have balls \m/
Oh yeah, setups. Sure to be a bunch in 2012, though I’m going to miss f throw dash dash cross tatsu. Not that its a go-to option, but its an OPTION that is layered on top of others AND it invokes a cross-up attack. Its likely stunted now or really risky.
Someone finally got a youtube version uploaded of my matches at the Final Round Qualifier.
vs KidGoku(Ken)
[media=youtube]4aQA1VN0omY[/media]
Losers Finals
vs NewOrleansFrog (Fei)
[media=youtube]KDSlgKto7Ec[/media]
Grand Finals
vs Happy Medicine (Chun, Bison)
[media=youtube]7a_BJAxDOi0[/media]
[media=youtube]h570PUS5Bjo[/media]
Of course it’s horrible if you compare it to Ride/Master/Justice (being a MetallicA fan I put those above most things out there anyway), it’s just not that bad when compared to St.Anger for example, that album could literally make your ears bleed lol, I personally thought some of the songs were okay on DM and better than some of the stuff that were in the Re/Load albums (Instrumental, Judas kiss & End of the line). That lame Lou Reed travesty thing was just Uber fail though, not much to say about it lol.
Back to the demon , the x2 dashes setups should still be viable vs characters with slow reversals or who wakeup slower than normal after forward throw and are still safejumpable.
Also, we’ll have to wait until the game is out to see if we can use x-up tatsu vs characters who we can’t safejump anymore with x2 dashes to stuff their reversals (i.e Sagat, Fei, Adon…etc). At the moment Ibuki wakes up a frame faster and the regular x2 dashes safejump doesn’t work vs her, but IIRC we can x-up tatsu to stuff her 5f reversal, Sagat will have similar timing in AE v2012 since he wakes up a frame slower and we recover 2 frames slower, so overall just a frame faster than normal timing and it might be possible to still stuff out his TU with x-up tatsu.
If we can still x-up tatsu to stuff certain reversals that we won’t be able to safejump anymore, that would be Very good IMO, I mean look at Ryu, yeah we can’t safejump him but Vortex still works well vs him even though it’s not as safe as characters we can safejump. If that’s true, we might end up with a handful of characters who’ll really tone down the vortex after forward throw (I’m not looking forward to play vs AEv2012 Blanka…)
Eh, if there’s characters crossup tatsu is not going to work anymore we’re pretty much screwed. I mean, once you cannot crossup, now that you block the palm low what’s so hard for the opponent after a throw?
Say this (crossup Tatsu not stuffing TUs) happens to Sagat, and we switch to Gamogo’s safejump (dash, MK DF divekick): all Akuma can do is safejumping him with a move (DF divekick) which brings no mixup, you just kill it downblocking. Being also that you do only one dash and then flip, recognizing the flip will be piece of cake for the opponent, and they will just have to handle a very risky DF grab (TU into T+HK and Ultra for 460 to 570 damage) or said divekick, because v2012 flip = block low.
I really hope that won’t happen and we can still stuff those reversals, but that’s the scenario where v2012 nerfs hurt most, when they actually combine.
Sigh, if only backthrow wasn’t plain garbage.
Why not? Isn’t it just going to be more of the same as right now, meaning we’re going to be forced to lame it out? Oh, and I liked Unforgiven III on that Album… Then again, I’m not a huge MetallicA fan…