Against bison it does have its uses. But really the lp shoryu follow up is a corner setup, where it shines, since it’ll hop over reversals and sets up a nice ambigious crossup.
c.MP works if your foe isn’t completely expecting it, but there isn’t really a lot of time otherwise. LP.SRK seems to give you a little more flexibility.
Overall I think I like what Tokido is doing because I have come to the same conclusion a while ago. I have been messing around with a few different methods to generate pressure against characters that you can’t sweep. Even things like HP.SRK > FADC with no further attacks in the combo because it sets you up in position to pressure your foe’s wake up.
I quite liked what I saw ShadyK doing recently in a set against Air, he was resetting with st.hp xx shaku. I don’t think he mixed it up enough to make Air scared of it, and with good reaction time you can react accordingly to the reset mixup… but I like it for keeping them on edge.
After multiple upload attempts, I’ve given up, it’s never going to show up. I don’t know how 0ShinAkuma0 doesn’t manage to tear his hair out daily with how awkward it is to upload 720p.
It was only 30fps so wouldn’t have been able to do frame analysis in any case. But it seems that ShadyK and Richard know the frame data anyway. Do you mind sharing so I can have a think about other setups?
So a lp.SRK ender let’s you recover and jump in / whatever quicker and with better positioning right? But losing 40 damage off each BnB for it adds up. Is this usually only used in corner or everywhere?
I would say it’s a trick for specific match-ups.
You should probably Shaku instead of nothing to add damage and build meter. Shaku finishers still give good vortex opportunities. If they quickstand, you get most of the mix-ups that can be done off a sweep. I have done FADC to nothing in matches by accident and mixed up anyway.
For my information, is there anything special you know off the empty FADC that’s better than what you can do after a Shaku?
I have a couple of gimmicks I use for pressuring after an SRK finisher, and they work with HP Shoryu.
Jump foward after the SRK and do a quick air fireball before the apex (roughly 70-80% height, but you’ll be familiar with what I’m getting at), MP fireball is best. This will beat SRK type reversals and give you a techable knockdown; if they block, you have frame advantage. {In vanilla you would ground stun the SRK with the fireball and get a full combo and would have more frame advantage on block… I love vanilla}
Based on the arch of their EX reversal, they can EX right through though. Suprisingly they can also back jump out or neutral jump and then punish you big on the way down. The fireball tracks if they backdash and they block it on their toes, but they can backdash and then SRK through and get you aswell. This is stuff they’ll likely only find when they run it through training mode themself though.
You can do the EX air fireball to smother them as they get up. They can’t jump out or backdash, and you have more options on block. They can still EX through, and you also dump your meter if they didn’t quick-stand.
The other super gimmicky thing I do is an immediate HK Demon Flip palm over them. If done with no delay; LP Shoryus and such will whiff underneath and I can punish with ultra, sweep and walk-in combo. It’s a complete single-target manuever for the DP though. There’s no use from this other than making the SRK whiff. They can crouch fierce, non reversal auto-correct/cross-cut DP, mash jabs for you to land on, sweep for you to land on etc etc.
However, when they are familiar with the idea of not SRKing as soon as you jump after an SRK BnB finisher to trump all your air mix-ups, then you can start sneaking in the odd cross-tatsu or demon flip throw/dive kick.
Ok so first of all, super awesome finding!!!
I tried both ways (s.mp dash and double dash to j.lk) and i find the 1st one to work better because i cant get the timing right on the 2nd (j.lk Ryu’s lp/fp srk and resets) so i tried doing s.rh after the throw and it works PERFECTLY. I get the same resaults but it is much MUCH easier.
So its like corner throw, spam s.rh button then j.lk etc. Give it a try and let me know pls.
edit: i get the “perfectly” part back. Done some more testing and i can say it still has a strict timing, although its still easier than the double dash way. Again let me know what you think.
/respect Richard for the awesome find once again
Would the unblockable work on other characters if you adjusted the timing of the jumping lk to the wakeup times?
Wtf double post.
So here i made a complete list for the unblockable. Also listed characters’ possible ways to escape it etc
I used the throw, s.rh, j.lk way.
Oppoenents on 1p, Akuma on 2p. Used the left corner
Ryu: As already been said his srk/super/ultras make j.lk whiff and OS sweep come out, but u can recovery in time to punish
Ken: Same stuff with Ryu. Not sure if you can punish his lp srk
Honda: Unblockable doesn’t work here. Seems like his big hitbox helps him separate a cross up/normal attack better, if you know what i mean. He can block it by pressing forward
Ibuki: Same stuff with Ryu.
Makoto: Everything she has loses except her U2 that will make j.lk whiff and then land at the other end of the screen. Note: she can’t hit you with the short U2 version.
Dudley: Seems like he is waking up slower than normal (Ryu kind), j.lk whiffed just like that and also when i did his srk he auto-corrected me so yeah he probably wakes up slower.
Seth: Same with Dudley
Gouken: Same with Dudley
Akuma: A strange message popped up when i picked Akuma, was like “You are using my techniques against me!!! Prepare to meet your maker!!!” So yeah… He can block it by pressing back
Gen: Strange case, can block it by pressing back.
Dan: Same with Ryu.
Sakura: same with Gen
Juri: Same with Gen
Chun Li: Same with Gen
Dhalsim: Same with Dudley
Abel: Same with Gen
C. Viper: Same with Dudley
Bison: Same with Gen
Sagat: He has a slower wake up, can’t really test
Cammy: Same with Sagat
DJ: Same with Dudley
Cody: Same with Gen
Guy: wtf here. Blocks it both ways lol
Hakkan: Same with Gen
Guile: Same with Gen
Blanka: Wierd, block it by holding back, gets hit by holding forward but stays in the corner.
Zangief: Same with Gen
Rufus: Same with Guy
El Fuerte: Same with Gen
Vega: Same with Dudley
Balrog: Wakes up slower, can’t really test.
Fei Long: Same with Gen
T. Hawk: Same with Dudley
Adon: Wakes up faster, can’t really test.
Rose: Same with Dudley.
Ok some notes. It seems that there are 2 timings where the j.lk whiffs vs Ryu’s lp srk although one of them isn’t unblockable as Ryu can block it by holding forward. However, it changes the ways it can be blocked for the “Gen/Guy” cases. Dudley cases are still unaffected of course.
I got those results by using the timing where it is unblockable vs Ryu and his lp srk whiffs.
I’m also marking (bold) the ones that the unblockable works.
Hope that makes your lives a bit easier 
The Shaku defeats the purpose of what I attempt to do with the cancel. I am trying to put myself in a position to pressure an attempt to quick stand after a combo. Shaku can give better position than a normal SRK, but it does not give the same amount of time. In fact you can get on top of your opponent so fast that you can time your pressure too early.
Let me know if you find any deadly setups off that (cross-up air fireball?). I figure you are using 3 hit HP Shoryu to the empty cancel, which I have never explored.
If you expect a quickstand you should dp fadc into a crossup air fireball. This setup can lead to massive damage and stun.
MP DP adds more damage and gives similar positional advantage.
I reset using the ex shaku. Lets you follow up with a sweep or some other pressure due to the fast recovery.
Can someone who managed to get the unblockable to work in Super try to do it in Vanilla. I can’t seem to get it…
Wait are you saying st.hp xx lk.tatsu with a st.hp reset xx shaku?
I actually use that reset when close to corners so i can take advantage of the huge advantage ex shaku gives. Works pretty well imo
Yes, however you get into a tatsu, reset with cs.HP xx shaku.
I remember thinking of that in vanilla, but whenever I did it the shaku would just whiff and they’d get a free punish. It can be ex srked on reaction as well I guess.
mason its not true. When i said “close to a corner” i didint really mean hugging a corner, just a bit close to it. It wont ever whiff and no ex srk wont hit you (ex scissors will but oh well).
[media=youtube]Viqw75891Tk]YouTube - Tokido [Akuma] vs GamerBee [Adon[/media]
[media=youtube]ira3hXVI5Js]YouTube - Tokido [Akuma] vs Iyo [Ibuki[/media]
If I can add to this discussion,
I’ve found that if are in the corner and land back throw, then immediately follow with j.lk its pretty damn ambiguous.
I’ve noted that if the j.lk lands in front, he has to block it by holding forward, BUT, he has to block the followup combo by holding BACK!!! If he blocks by holding back, the j.lk will land for free combo…I can’t seem to make it unblockable like the forward throw setup, but, its easy to see that this idea can be very usable in game. Just spreading the love
~style~
EDIT:
Works on Ken, Ryu, Honda, ibuki, makoto, Akuma, chun li, sim(can’t teleport either), Bison(ditto), cammy, cody, blanka, rufus, fei,
DOESN’T work on(NOTE: It will force a crossup vs these characters which can be blocked by holding forward): dudley, guile, seth, gouken, gen, juri, abel, viper, sagat, deejay, guy, hakan, gief, elf, rog, Rose.
As you can see its a pretty big list of characters that this DOESN’T work on, BUUUUUT, of that list I believe that most of those characters are not problem characters in the first place. I only see Guile and Rog as the only two problem characters that this WON’T work on.
RE-EDIT:
I noticed that when I testing this, I was NOT linking the mp to the j.lk. once I reset the combo and tried it again I got different results. If you link the mp(or any attack) the game will force you to crossup which CAN be blocked. If you do not link the mp, and you will be able to stuff most attacks and you will get the desired effect. Problem is, it can be blocked by holding back(even though it looks like a cross up) The jumpin will hit, but they will block the MP since it isn’t comboing. It however is a great moment to tick throw and set up Richards unblockable with the forward throw. I’ll keep screwing around with this to see what I get. I do believe that this can be a great was to turn defense into offense even if its not a true unblockable.