Now that we as a community experienced our first annual balance patch, **Was it sufficient for a year’s wait? **I am not referring to new content, although that does ultimately add flavor to a patch.
If this is the new order of things, **do you approve of Capcom’s approach, mainly the quantity and quality of these patches, for the coming years? **
Do you think we need another patch before the season starts?
What was missing from the patch that would’ve made it better? And here I am not referring to the nerfs/buffs you wanted so please try to be as objective as possible.
Please take your time and careful consideration with your answers. Our overlords are watching.
I think that the patch did shake things up considerably so in a sense yeah it is sufficient from a balance standpoint. I do think that the major issue people are having is the lack of new mechanics or dynamics to the game. Most people expected a Super Street Figher 5 where they will improve the " game" as a product and add some more depth to the game’s fighting mechanics.
**I think one big patch per year is enough but it need to be beta tested first. ** Other service based game usually have test servers or even older SF games had location test events where people could try it and give their opinion on the balancing. Most of the people have the feeling that balancing was biased, this feeling comes from seeing already good characters like Urien and Rog get buffed so hard while others like FANG and Alex might have gotten worse.
I am honestly not sure that we " Need " another balance patch. I think what we needed is added layer to the game system along with a lot of fixed to the product. I think if Capcom is going for annual big patch then they need to consider having more features added to the game alongside it. It would definitely help make the patch feel more substantial.
The balances changes are questionable (look at Fangs changes, now look at Uriens), but what I really expected from season 2 was more depth. The change to white life seems more like a fix, as it wasnt even of any concern before, but now you can actually play with it in mind, it’s working as intended now.
They made certain changes to the vsystem (some skills and triggers got “adjusted”) but nothing actually game changing in my eyes.
Where is the “second ultra”, “double ultra”, “red focus” level of change for SFV?
People who thought SFV was bland got nothing to change their minds and season 2 just shook up some matchups.
Something’s missing.
Like this is just the character patch and the gameplay patch is still bound to happen…
Does the 2nd player have the option to choose rematch in VS mode?
Has more single player content requested by the Casual base been implemented since the summer patch?
Does the training mode remember my settings?
Did the new ragequit system actually work?
Were they honest about their balancing approach/philosophy? See: http://imgur.com/a/hPLrR
Was the input delay reduced (according to their most recent statement regarding that)?
Do we 100% know who the new characters in the character pass are going to be or have any idea of how they’ll play?
I dunno about your answers, but mine are a resounding “Fuck no” to all of these so no, it was not enough.
No they aren’t. They mainly look at eventhubs, reddit and Capcom-unity. They’ve never given any indication that they give a single fuck about what gets posted on SRK.
I don’t think any balance patch for any fighting game has ever been enough, so it’s easy to just say no.
Do I like the overall direction they went with though, yeah I’ll say so. Obviously some bias because Ibuki got buffed really nicely and wake up dps got nerfed which all help her gameplan. Chun Li got flipped upside down as a character for some reason, but a good portion of her basics are still there and think she’ll pan out ok. Juri also got all kinds of buffs and seems to be in a good spot now with a lot of room for tech advancement.
Only thing I didn’t like too much was the way they handled meterless DPs. They could have done it in a way that still keeps the invincible frames from frame 1, (just make the crush counter more damaging or something), but at least it keeps their defense more in line with other characters. It’s just specifically for shotos they are going to have situations where they want to DP after a fireball and will basically have to spend meter now which isn’t something I think Capcom was thinking about. Whereas a character who doesn’t rely on a fireball like Cammy will be able to AA MK cannon spike much more freely.
I’m not a big fan of mechanics and already like how the V Skills and V Trigger change up some of the characters, so that’s something I’m personally indifferent about.
It went way farther than I expected for an annual balance patch. I didn’t expect them to make such radical decisions like removing invincible reversals or pretty much removing oki from most non-grappler characters.
Also we were mostly expecting small fixes here and there, but many characters have changes dramatically for the better or the worst. I was still in disbelief when I found out all the things I discovered in the “beta” were an actual part of the new patch.
System wise, it looks like they just tried to be more consistent with their approach since the betas in 2015; character wise they managed to buff low tiers and nerf high tiers, but also to buff high tiers and destroy low tiers… so it’s unclear where they were going, except that they seem to have chosen which characters are gonna be good in next season.
edit: one may find some patterns in the changes though. For instance:
most of the characters that got buffed have a very strong ground pressure (Cammy, Urien, Rog, Laura, Bison and Ibuki to a certain extent) and are now able to rush down and frame trap even better, also thanks to the DP nerf
characters with very long mid range pokes got them nerfed (Birdie, Alex, FANG, partially Vega), effectively forcing them to play more at distance
probably tied to the previous point, strong zoners like Sim or Guile got buffed directly and indirectly (through grey life nerf)
Overall the main design seems to be to separate rushdown from zoner characters instead of having everyone in the former category.
That has no relationship with a balance patch. Why do people have to be that petulant in every thread?
You didn’t remove the input delay remark and that would affect balance if you want to be a stickler about it. Instead they went the route of making some moves slower and while that technically makes them easier to block/not get caught off guard by as often, it also kills some of the counter-poke/punish/whiff-punish ability of said moves and I would’ve preferred a reduction in input delay instead, so they can retain that aspect while still being less likely to catch people off guard when used pre-emptively.
I don’t think slowing down moves is strictly related to input delay since they also increased the speed of other moves (Cammy’s st. MK was still godlike when it wasn’t 8f). I still feel it’s part of a design to differentiate between zoners and close range characters, as ill-thought as it might be in the end.
I like the idea of changing things up once a yr. I’m glad Capcom hasn’t gone out of their way to change the balance and allowed V to grow.
Like everything, there’s things I’m a fan of and things I thought were totally unnecessary. I’m glad Bison got buffed, but hate the fact that Nash got nerfed the way he did. Same with Mika as well. I just gotta get accustomed to the changes.
If they’re going to keep it at one patch a year I really think they should provide more in-depth commentary/explanation of the motivation behind character specific changes. Communication was one of their stated priorities but all we got with the S2 patch was a brief summary of system changes followed by a few poorly written lines for each character.
Stuff like:
*“Balrog now has more ways to break through the opponent’s guard.”
*
or:
*“Moves that were used frequently during footsies have been adjusted.”
*
These are absurdly vague and don’t explain anything about the motivation behind the changes which is something developer commentary needs to address. The “commentary” we got is little more than a shitty Cliff’s Notes version of the change log. I doubt it will even help new players understand the patch because it’s confusing as shit. Next time instead of just summarizing the change log they also need to explain WHY they made certain changes if they care about their reputation. There are several low tier characters who got nerfed and high tier characters who got buffed and you can be sure a good number of players are feeling resentment towards Capcom over that. It’s unlikely that any explanation from Capcom would make these players happy but at least if they said something like
“we know FANG didn’t receive as many direct buffs as players may have expected, but we’re confident that the gray life recovery nerf and meterless DP nerf will indirectly buff the character”
It gives the impression that they are thinking through the changes instead of just doing stuff for the sake of it. It also lets people know if a character will continue to suit their playstyle or not; for instance, if Capcom states that their vision for Nash is for him to be an offensive character which is why they killed his runaway game, it let’s players move on from that character if they don’t enjoy their style anymore. Instead of clinging to them on the off chance that those changes will be reverted in S3.
I agree I like it too. It reminds me of other esports. Where that have changes per season including minor changes during the season.
I really like this approach. It allows time for competitors to figure out any broken stuff and assess the characters over a year period. In our case, it was less than a year but that is besides the point.
I do wish they would go more in line with how LoL or other esports titles go where they explain the changes and actually reference community concerns for why they did it. I don’t think the blog post really handled that well.
Think the big problem is still communication, which I hope they work on into next year.
Enough-ish. There’s still some things that bug me. Jabs from Necalli STILL beat out air moves for some stupid reason and he can STILL mash it on wakeup to beat any crossup. Granted it trades much more frequently but it needed to be 100% removed. Necallis now still can be braindead with AAs. :o Seriously though why can’t I just cross him up D:
Also the strange overbuffs to Urien or Guile seem strange to me. Why is Guile 2 bars now? I dunno but I guess Capcom did.
That being said as a Laura player I am grateful for those universal nerfs. Frankly I feel it needed to come sooner as the current “meta” and “top 8” were already figured out months ago
It’s something I’ve been complaining about for awhile now. The thing is capcom has their own in company testers that are very good at the game. Some probably even able to rival top 8 evo players.
But they aren’t allowed to entire tournaments so capcom basically generates a company meta where this or that character is good because the local capcom champ owns with them at capcom. This is what they mean when they say “internal balance testing”
But as a company they are secretive with this stuff because in their own words “they don’t want to ruin the longevity of the game or sense of discovery that many players will get by learning things on their own”
And that makes some sense, but not to the point that they take it. A simple “we envisioned this character be used this way with these attributes” would damn near be enough. But nope, they only speak in vague terminology.
It’s very frustrating to not have hitbox viewers and company tutorials on characters just because a company thinks it will ruin the games creativity, which it won’t.
Don’t outright nerf characters unless something is literally fucking stupid (like + on block air legs). Get to the point you are happy that the character is playing in the game in the way you (Capcom) intended, then leave them the fuck alone. The way Chun was balanced for season 2 is a good barometer of how it should be done.
The issue I have with yearly balance patches is that I hope they don’t just go through some annual thing of -
Well we made Nash strong in season 1. Let’s make Akuma super strong in season 2, nerf Nash, then buff Nash back up for season 3, then nerf Akuma…blah blah you get the point. **
I don’t even play Nash and the nerfs he has got are just laughable. He’s barely playable now. Arguably the best player in the world won some tournaments with him whilst using a play style that Capcom didn’t foresee when creating him (according to Combofiend). The irony is that he wasn’t as strong as everyone thought he was. The community learned more and more how to deal with Nash, to the point Infiltration went 0-2 at Capcom Cup.
*Looks at the S2 changes for Ryu" No the annual balance patch was not enough, Some of their changes were biased in the patch and S1 will end up being better down the road than the current S2 in the end
while i want there to be another round of rebalancing before the season starts in 3 months, i think capcom probably won’t be investing those resources into any major changes (as in the meterless reversal is pretty much gone, no reverse), it’s most likely going to be bug fixes / take out potentially broken stuff / reacting to community outrage…etc etc.
I do not know if this is on point, but I do approve of the once-a-year approach. It does not have to be ONE patch, but if there are going to be multiple patches they should release them in a quick succession prior to the new season begins. (let’s say the new season begins with an official CPT tournament) And there should not be no changes to the game once the season commences.
They probably took into consideration some players comments (e.g. Tokido) on how removing the input delay further (remember, it was already reduced sometime in the Fall), would favor certain characters/playstyles as a whole.